5 ms·

VW to Reshuffle $56B Battery Push as Samsung Deal at Risk

26 points by okket 7y ago

hinkley 7y ago
> Tesla, beset by concerns over demand and its ability to make a profit, last month accused its battery supplier, Panasonic Corp., of being the culprit for tepid production rates of the affordable Model 3. I'm confused. I thought the Gigafactory was supposed to be building batteries, as in building cells, not just building battery packs from third party cells.
- vikramkr 7y ago
  The gigafactory is building the batteries and cells and all, it's just that the gigafactory != Tesla. Panasonic is their partner and is responsible for a significant chunk of the space and equipment for manufacturing cells. https://electrek.co/2016/07/29/tesla-gigafactory-panasonics-machine-battery-cell/ https://electrek.co/2016/07/29/tesla-gigafactory-panasonics-...
  - pkaye 7y ago
    So what is Tesla's contribution to this? They always make it seem like its their baby.
    - CamelCaseName 7y ago
      In 2014, Tesla wrote to its investors [0]: "...According to the agreement, Tesla will prepare, provide and manage the land, buildings and utilities. Panasonic will manufacture and supply cylindrical lithium-ion cells and invest in the associated equipment, machinery, and other manufacturing tools based on their mutual approval. A network of supplier partners is planned to produce the required precursor materials. Tesla will take the cells and other components to assemble battery modules and packs. To meet the projected demand for cells, Tesla will continue to purchase battery cells produced in Panasonic's factories in Japan. Tesla and Panasonic will continue to discuss the details of implementation including sales, operations and investment." From a quick read of this press release and a few others, it seems that Panasonic is doing the real heavy lifting from a manufacturing perspective. [0] https://ir.teslamotors.com/news-releases/news-release-details/panasonic-and-tesla-sign-agreement-gigafactory https://ir.teslamotors.com/news-releases/news-release-detail...
    - DeonPenny 7y ago
      The chemistry of the battery. They just don't package them
      - toomuchtodo 7y ago
        Panasonic is the bottlers as Tesla is to corporate Coca Cola. Is Coca Cola any less real because someone else is churning out the soda?
  - hinkley 7y ago
    So we have an assembly line and the people contributing the IP for running the 'front half' of the line can't get the production rates up enough to saturate the 'back half' of the assembly line, which means the production rate is lower than expected?
konschubert 7y ago
Is this putting the ID.3 at risk?
- rasz 7y ago
  aww, you really expected VW to be serious about electric cars?
  - woodandsteel 7y ago
    Yes. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-03-12/vw-s-audi-porsche-margins-sag-in-costly-shift-to-electric-era https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-03-12/vw-s-audi... The real news here is that the EV revolution is finally starting to really take off. The auto companies that are not already pushing hard on developing EV's are going to be left behind and go bankrupt. Of the incumbent auto makers, VW is the most committed.
    - thrower123 7y ago
      I really don't buy it. In the US, the best-selling vehicles are SUVs and trucks, and it has only gotten more pronounced now that the US has become a net oil exporter and the spectre of $5/gallon gas that we approached 15 years ago is just a bad memory. Ford alone sells more F150s in a single year than all the EVs all together.
      - gvb 7y ago
        You picked a good example with Ford that illustrates the parent's point, probably in a way not intended by the parent post. Soon Ford will no longer be an automobile manufacturer - they will only be building trucks and SUVs (aka fake trucks) with the lone exception of the Mustang. Ref: https://www.nbcnews.com/business/autos/ford-stop-making-all-passenger-cars-except-mustang-n869256 https://www.nbcnews.com/business/autos/ford-stop-making-all-...
        petre 7y ago

26 points by okket 7y ago

> Tesla, beset by concerns over demand and its ability to make a profit, last month accused its battery supplier, Panasonic Corp., of being the culprit for tepid production rates of the affordable Model 3. I'm confused. I thought the Gigafactory was supposed to be building batteries, as in building cells, not just building battery packs from third party cells.

vikramkr 7y ago
The gigafactory is building the batteries and cells and all, it's just that the gigafactory != Tesla. Panasonic is their partner and is responsible for a significant chunk of the space and equipment for manufacturing cells. https://electrek.co/2016/07/29/tesla-gigafactory-panasonics-machine-battery-cell/ https://electrek.co/2016/07/29/tesla-gigafactory-panasonics-...
- pkaye 7y ago
  So what is Tesla's contribution to this? They always make it seem like its their baby.
  - CamelCaseName 7y ago
    In 2014, Tesla wrote to its investors [0]: "...According to the agreement, Tesla will prepare, provide and manage the land, buildings and utilities. Panasonic will manufacture and supply cylindrical lithium-ion cells and invest in the associated equipment, machinery, and other manufacturing tools based on their mutual approval. A network of supplier partners is planned to produce the required precursor materials. Tesla will take the cells and other components to assemble battery modules and packs. To meet the projected demand for cells, Tesla will continue to purchase battery cells produced in Panasonic's factories in Japan. Tesla and Panasonic will continue to discuss the details of implementation including sales, operations and investment." From a quick read of this press release and a few others, it seems that Panasonic is doing the real heavy lifting from a manufacturing perspective. [0] https://ir.teslamotors.com/news-releases/news-release-details/panasonic-and-tesla-sign-agreement-gigafactory https://ir.teslamotors.com/news-releases/news-release-detail...
  - DeonPenny 7y ago
    The chemistry of the battery. They just don't package them
    - toomuchtodo 7y ago
      Panasonic is the bottlers as Tesla is to corporate Coca Cola. Is Coca Cola any less real because someone else is churning out the soda?
- hinkley 7y ago
  So we have an assembly line and the people contributing the IP for running the 'front half' of the line can't get the production rates up enough to saturate the 'back half' of the assembly line, which means the production rate is lower than expected?

konschubert 7y ago

Is this putting the ID.3 at risk?

rasz 7y ago
aww, you really expected VW to be serious about electric cars?
- woodandsteel 7y ago
  Yes. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-03-12/vw-s-audi-porsche-margins-sag-in-costly-shift-to-electric-era https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-03-12/vw-s-audi... The real news here is that the EV revolution is finally starting to really take off. The auto companies that are not already pushing hard on developing EV's are going to be left behind and go bankrupt. Of the incumbent auto makers, VW is the most committed.
  - thrower123 7y ago
    I really don't buy it. In the US, the best-selling vehicles are SUVs and trucks, and it has only gotten more pronounced now that the US has become a net oil exporter and the spectre of $5/gallon gas that we approached 15 years ago is just a bad memory. Ford alone sells more F150s in a single year than all the EVs all together.
    - gvb 7y ago
      You picked a good example with Ford that illustrates the parent's point, probably in a way not intended by the parent post. Soon Ford will no longer be an automobile manufacturer - they will only be building trucks and SUVs (aka fake trucks) with the lone exception of the Mustang. Ref: https://www.nbcnews.com/business/autos/ford-stop-making-all-passenger-cars-except-mustang-n869256 https://www.nbcnews.com/business/autos/ford-stop-making-all-...
      - petre 7y ago