8 ms·

Stem Cell Research must be allowed.

pshapiro 16y ago
I came here to extoll the benefits of stem cell therapy with bio-matter obtained from the proper sources... but you beat me to it. :)
- Bud 16y ago
  What are the "proper" sources?
  - pshapiro 16y ago
    Good question. If you lay out your options that you know about, I'll point out if there are among them any acceptable ones in my opinion.
    - ars 16y ago
      Based on your username are you Jewish? Because you'll be interested to know that Judaism not only permits embryonic stem cell research it actually encourages using the embryos rather than wasting them.
      - pshapiro 16y ago
        Nope, not Jewish. Only by stem cell. Religions are insufficient in some major ways. But they found time to include a clause about embryonic research, huh?
        ars 16y ago
        Are you looking for an answer or do you just want to be snarky?
        pshapiro 16y ago
        I gave you what you need to know to answer your question... I don't care what a religion says. They usually don't know what they're talking about. I didn't know any religion validated embryonic stem cell harvesting and I am saying that completely honestly.
burgerbrain 16y ago
Agreed of course, though this really isn't the place or time to get political. If I understand this correctly, these were stem cells from an adult donor who happened to be resistant to HIV, and there is pretty much no opposition* to adult stem cell research. *well, some people of course oppose it, but the opposition worth mention is against embryonic stem cells.
- burgerbrain 16y ago
  Further elaboration: "Doctors chose stem cells from an individual who had an unusual genetic profile: a mutation inherited from both parents that resulted in CD4 cells that lacked the CCR5 receptor." IIRC, there are only a handful of embryonic stem cell lines currently in active use. If one of them happened to be resistant to HIV I think we would have heard of it before now.
- 1337p337 16y ago
  Certainly, if the apparent cure (which I hope and I'm sure the rest of the world hopes it is) came from embryonic stem cells, this would deplete any political capital held by the opposition to embryonic stem cell research. As the cells came from an adult donor, though, the talking heads on both sides of the issue can rest assured that on a slow news day, they can still fall back on dogmatic opinion pieces!
Groxx 16y ago
The trick is that there are many sources of stem cells, some controversial, some most definitely not. For instance: baby teeth[1]; amniotic fluid[2]; embryos[3]; fetuses[4]; and others. There are even "pluripotent"[5] cells which have similar attributes, which have even been created from skin cells. "Stem Cell Research must be allowed": of course. Blanket bans are ignorant of the sources, and are effectively idiotic in the extreme. But which do you allow? And do you allow researchers to pay people for them? (note that this could mean abortions become profitable, if amniotic fluid / similar cells are allowed) And how do you get them? They're also still effectively human genetic experimentation - some people will never approve of that. [1]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stem_cell#cite_ref-60 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stem_cell#cite_ref-60 [2]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stem_cell#Amniotic http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stem_cell#Amniotic [3]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stem_cell#Embryonic http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stem_cell#Embryonic [4]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stem_cell#Fetal http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stem_cell#Fetal [5]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stem_cell#Induced_pluripotent http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stem_cell#Induced_pluripotent
- checoivan 16y ago
  Indeed. It would help not calling them by a generic "Stem Cell research" name . Yes, some cell sources fall in the grey, almost black part of the line, but there are other being completely safe and out of ethical concerns. For example, discarded Placentas are full of them and doctors throw them away anyways.
- sukuriant 16y ago
  Don't forget about adult stem cells, too. Those do count.
  - Groxx 16y ago
    I didn't include those specifically because they're much harder to find: >Pluripotent adult stem cells are rare and generally small in number but can be found in a number of tissues including umbilical cord blood. Though I'm not sure if that has changed. I've generally gotten the impression that, while they can literally be found in every tissue, they're much harder to actually find, separate, and stimulate in usable quantities than the ones I listed. Umbilical cord blood is probably worth including though, yes, I think I've heard that's fairly high density. Though that's not what I'd consider to be "adult"; nearly anything to do with growing babies has stem cells.
dantheman 16y ago
I agree with you, but if IRCC it's about funding. People have problems funding stem cell research when the cells come from certain places. I don't agree with them at all, but I can understand their point.
sliverstorm 16y ago
The difficulty with using HIV as your use-case argument is last I checked, most religious organizations considered HIV to be God's scourge on homosexuals. e.g. they are not particularly worried about getting rid of it. (I'm not just being snarky or sarcastic)
- chrisb 16y ago
  This is certainly not true with mainstream Christianity in the UK, although sadly some loud voices can be heard agreeing with what you say. As just one example, Christian Aid, a large UK charity which works to end poverty and injustice around the world clearly states that HIV is a virus, not a moral issue: http://www.christianaid.org.uk/resources/policy/HIV_AIDS.aspx http://www.christianaid.org.uk/resources/policy/HIV_AIDS.asp...
- fdghfdgh 16y ago
  If we need to get rid of religion first, so be it. Win-win.
- joshuacc 16y ago
  Perhaps, if by "most religious organizations" you mean "a great number of fundamentalist-leaning Christian sects." But that is very different from "most religious people" or even "most Christians." For example, approximately 50% of Christians are Catholics, which definitely doesn't teach that. The same holds true for Eastern Orthodox, Anglicans and other mainstream Christian groups. See Catholic Charities: http://www.caritas.org/activities/hiv_aids/sinethemba_a_caritas_response_to_aids.html http://www.caritas.org/activities/hiv_aids/sinethemba_a_cari... See this official Vatican statement on AIDS: http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/secretariat_state/2003/documents/rc_seg-st_20030922_commitment-hiv-aids_en.html http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/secretariat_state/2003/doc...
- Luc 16y ago
  Archbishop Leonard, the Catholic Primate of Belgium, considers the AIDS epidemic not at all a punishment from God, but 'a sort of intrinsic justice' for actions like promiscuity. What a wonderful doctrine, huh...

I came here to extoll the benefits of stem cell therapy with bio-matter obtained from the proper sources... but you beat me to it. :)

Bud 16y ago
What are the "proper" sources?
- pshapiro 16y ago
  Good question. If you lay out your options that you know about, I'll point out if there are among them any acceptable ones in my opinion.
  - ars 16y ago
    Based on your username are you Jewish? Because you'll be interested to know that Judaism not only permits embryonic stem cell research it actually encourages using the embryos rather than wasting them.
    - pshapiro 16y ago
      Nope, not Jewish. Only by stem cell. Religions are insufficient in some major ways. But they found time to include a clause about embryonic research, huh?
      - ars 16y ago
        Are you looking for an answer or do you just want to be snarky?
        pshapiro 16y ago
        I gave you what you need to know to answer your question... I don't care what a religion says. They usually don't know what they're talking about. I didn't know any religion validated embryonic stem cell harvesting and I am saying that completely honestly.

burgerbrain 16y ago

Agreed of course, though this really isn't the place or time to get political. If I understand this correctly, these were stem cells from an adult donor who happened to be resistant to HIV, and there is pretty much no opposition* to adult stem cell research. *well, some people of course oppose it, but the opposition worth mention is against embryonic stem cells.

burgerbrain 16y ago
Further elaboration: "Doctors chose stem cells from an individual who had an unusual genetic profile: a mutation inherited from both parents that resulted in CD4 cells that lacked the CCR5 receptor." IIRC, there are only a handful of embryonic stem cell lines currently in active use. If one of them happened to be resistant to HIV I think we would have heard of it before now.
1337p337 16y ago
Certainly, if the apparent cure (which I hope and I'm sure the rest of the world hopes it is) came from embryonic stem cells, this would deplete any political capital held by the opposition to embryonic stem cell research. As the cells came from an adult donor, though, the talking heads on both sides of the issue can rest assured that on a slow news day, they can still fall back on dogmatic opinion pieces!

Groxx 16y ago

The trick is that there are many sources of stem cells, some controversial, some most definitely not. For instance: baby teeth[1]; amniotic fluid[2]; embryos[3]; fetuses[4]; and others. There are even "pluripotent"[5] cells which have similar attributes, which have even been created from skin cells. "Stem Cell Research must be allowed": of course. Blanket bans are ignorant of the sources, and are effectively idiotic in the extreme. But which do you allow? And do you allow researchers to pay people for them? (note that this could mean abortions become profitable, if amniotic fluid / similar cells are allowed) And how do you get them? They're also still effectively human genetic experimentation - some people will never approve of that. [1]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stem_cell#cite_ref-60 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stem_cell#cite_ref-60 [2]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stem_cell#Amniotic http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stem_cell#Amniotic [3]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stem_cell#Embryonic http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stem_cell#Embryonic [4]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stem_cell#Fetal http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stem_cell#Fetal [5]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stem_cell#Induced_pluripotent http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stem_cell#Induced_pluripotent

checoivan 16y ago
Indeed. It would help not calling them by a generic "Stem Cell research" name . Yes, some cell sources fall in the grey, almost black part of the line, but there are other being completely safe and out of ethical concerns. For example, discarded Placentas are full of them and doctors throw them away anyways.
sukuriant 16y ago
Don't forget about adult stem cells, too. Those do count.
- Groxx 16y ago
  I didn't include those specifically because they're much harder to find: >Pluripotent adult stem cells are rare and generally small in number but can be found in a number of tissues including umbilical cord blood. Though I'm not sure if that has changed. I've generally gotten the impression that, while they can literally be found in every tissue, they're much harder to actually find, separate, and stimulate in usable quantities than the ones I listed. Umbilical cord blood is probably worth including though, yes, I think I've heard that's fairly high density. Though that's not what I'd consider to be "adult"; nearly anything to do with growing babies has stem cells.

dantheman 16y ago

I agree with you, but if IRCC it's about funding. People have problems funding stem cell research when the cells come from certain places. I don't agree with them at all, but I can understand their point.

sliverstorm 16y ago

The difficulty with using HIV as your use-case argument is last I checked, most religious organizations considered HIV to be God's scourge on homosexuals. e.g. they are not particularly worried about getting rid of it. (I'm not just being snarky or sarcastic)

chrisb 16y ago
This is certainly not true with mainstream Christianity in the UK, although sadly some loud voices can be heard agreeing with what you say. As just one example, Christian Aid, a large UK charity which works to end poverty and injustice around the world clearly states that HIV is a virus, not a moral issue: http://www.christianaid.org.uk/resources/policy/HIV_AIDS.aspx http://www.christianaid.org.uk/resources/policy/HIV_AIDS.asp...
fdghfdgh 16y ago
If we need to get rid of religion first, so be it. Win-win.
joshuacc 16y ago
Perhaps, if by "most religious organizations" you mean "a great number of fundamentalist-leaning Christian sects." But that is very different from "most religious people" or even "most Christians." For example, approximately 50% of Christians are Catholics, which definitely doesn't teach that. The same holds true for Eastern Orthodox, Anglicans and other mainstream Christian groups. See Catholic Charities: http://www.caritas.org/activities/hiv_aids/sinethemba_a_caritas_response_to_aids.html http://www.caritas.org/activities/hiv_aids/sinethemba_a_cari... See this official Vatican statement on AIDS: http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/secretariat_state/2003/documents/rc_seg-st_20030922_commitment-hiv-aids_en.html http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/secretariat_state/2003/doc...
Luc 16y ago
Archbishop Leonard, the Catholic Primate of Belgium, considers the AIDS epidemic not at all a punishment from God, but 'a sort of intrinsic justice' for actions like promiscuity. What a wonderful doctrine, huh...