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Biggest challenge for our planet, yet almost nobody is talking about it. IMHO it is just ridiculous to attribute famines to a 1 degree temperature rise, while a

by jansan 7y ago

Biggest challenge for our planet, yet almost nobody is talking about it. IMHO it is just ridiculous to attribute famines to a 1 degree temperature rise, while at the same time ignoring the fact that due to population growth the available land per capita has decreased dramatically within the last few decades.

mrpopo 7y ago
> IMHO it is just ridiculous to attribute famines to a 1 degree temperature rise, while at the same time ignoring the fact that due to population growth the available land per capita has decreased dramatically within the last few decades. These are two different problems that both need solving, and I'm sure some people in Africa are trying to tackle the population growth problem. If you're on HN right now, I'm sure you are more concerned with the temperature rise problem (by the way, 1 degree? We already passed that).
- jansan 7y ago
  When did we pass 1 degree (Celsius)?
  - mrpopo 7y ago
    Technically, we didn't pass it completely (0.8C). https://climate.nasa.gov/vital-signs/global-temperature/ https://climate.nasa.gov/vital-signs/global-temperature/ 2016 reached 1C of warming anomaly relative to 1951-1980 average, but was exceptionally hot. But there are enough greenhouse gases in the atmosphere and feedback loops in action so that, even if all human activity stopped right now, the 1C bar will be easily toppled, and depending on prediction models, the 1.5C is probably already unavoidable as well.
    - jansan 7y ago
      Maybe, but that wasn't my point in the original post. The famines that are taking place today are attributed to the temperature rise so far, and that is clearly below 1 degree. Just for comparison, in Bangladesh the population has quadrupled since the 1950s.
      - mrpopo 7y ago
        Bangladesh is not suffering of famines? Africa is suffering of famines, and the land use is far from saturated. Furthermore, most of the planet except Africa has a fertility rate below 2.5 already (Bangladesh at 2.4). The biggest reason for the population growth is due to the current population NOT dying of famines, diseases, etc. like they used to, and dying of old age instead. There is nothing to do to tackle the population growth, you would have to literally kill people.
7952 7y ago
I hear it brought up semi-regularly and always with the "no one is talking about this" bit. Once you understand the nuance of the problem there is not much you can really do about it. And those things you can do (education, contraception, womens rights) are already on the top of every sane development agenda. It just feels like a stalking horse for right wing sentiment that wants to use population as a way to bash liberals (not accusing you of that).
- jansan 7y ago
  > And those things you can do (education, contraception, womens rights) are already on the top of every sane development agenda. Then we should work on putting it on the insane agendas, too, or even better, get rid of the insane agendas altogether.
X6S1x6Okd1st 7y ago
And yet the single biggest factor in prevention of famines was the green revolution. If for every person that is born there is a chance that they'll contribute to humanity in a way that improves us as a species by a healthy percentage, as opposed to a fixed amount, then by all means we should have more people and innovate our way out of this. Honestly I grew up with a very Malthusian point of view and believed that I shouldn't reproduce due to overpopulation. As I learned more I changed my view. The most recent book that influenced my thinking on this was "The wizard and the prophet"

by jansan 7y ago

mrpopo 7y ago

> IMHO it is just ridiculous to attribute famines to a 1 degree temperature rise, while at the same time ignoring the fact that due to population growth the available land per capita has decreased dramatically within the last few decades. These are two different problems that both need solving, and I'm sure some people in Africa are trying to tackle the population growth problem. If you're on HN right now, I'm sure you are more concerned with the temperature rise problem (by the way, 1 degree? We already passed that).

jansan 7y ago
When did we pass 1 degree (Celsius)?
- mrpopo 7y ago
  Technically, we didn't pass it completely (0.8C). https://climate.nasa.gov/vital-signs/global-temperature/ https://climate.nasa.gov/vital-signs/global-temperature/ 2016 reached 1C of warming anomaly relative to 1951-1980 average, but was exceptionally hot. But there are enough greenhouse gases in the atmosphere and feedback loops in action so that, even if all human activity stopped right now, the 1C bar will be easily toppled, and depending on prediction models, the 1.5C is probably already unavoidable as well.
  - jansan 7y ago
    Maybe, but that wasn't my point in the original post. The famines that are taking place today are attributed to the temperature rise so far, and that is clearly below 1 degree. Just for comparison, in Bangladesh the population has quadrupled since the 1950s.
    - mrpopo 7y ago
      Bangladesh is not suffering of famines? Africa is suffering of famines, and the land use is far from saturated. Furthermore, most of the planet except Africa has a fertility rate below 2.5 already (Bangladesh at 2.4). The biggest reason for the population growth is due to the current population NOT dying of famines, diseases, etc. like they used to, and dying of old age instead. There is nothing to do to tackle the population growth, you would have to literally kill people.

7952 7y ago

I hear it brought up semi-regularly and always with the "no one is talking about this" bit. Once you understand the nuance of the problem there is not much you can really do about it. And those things you can do (education, contraception, womens rights) are already on the top of every sane development agenda. It just feels like a stalking horse for right wing sentiment that wants to use population as a way to bash liberals (not accusing you of that).

jansan 7y ago
> And those things you can do (education, contraception, womens rights) are already on the top of every sane development agenda. Then we should work on putting it on the insane agendas, too, or even better, get rid of the insane agendas altogether.

X6S1x6Okd1st 7y ago

And yet the single biggest factor in prevention of famines was the green revolution. If for every person that is born there is a chance that they'll contribute to humanity in a way that improves us as a species by a healthy percentage, as opposed to a fixed amount, then by all means we should have more people and innovate our way out of this. Honestly I grew up with a very Malthusian point of view and believed that I shouldn't reproduce due to overpopulation. As I learned more I changed my view. The most recent book that influenced my thinking on this was "The wizard and the prophet"