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By your logic, why use HTTPS in the first place? (Or at least why care about certificate validation at all?) Hint: Because ISPs are in a position to intercept

by comex 7y ago

By your logic, why use HTTPS in the first place? (Or at least why care about certificate validation at all?) Hint: Because ISPs are in a position to intercept and even MitM traffic, but generally not in a position to decide what URLs you go to.

tialaramex 7y ago
Only what is possible can be done. We have the technology to actually ensure that https://news.ycombinator.com/ https://news.ycombinator.com/ is really https://news.ycombinator.com/ https://news.ycombinator.com/ but we do not have technology that could ensure this is where you get when you type "Hacker News" into Bing. Part of what has to happen to civilisations around technology is that they adjust to what is possible. Different adjustments are possible, the egg washing thing is an example: in some countries you purchase eggs in the state they're laid (which means sometimes there is dirt on the shell), and you don't keep them in a refrigerator; in other countries you purchase eggs "washed" clean and they're refrigerated. Either of these approaches works fine, but mixing them up doesn't work. So, for example, teaching people to bookmark sites is an adjustment that works with our technology, whereas teaching them to get everywhere by following sponsored links on Google not so much. WebAuthn is another example. A Security Key doesn't care that you thought mybnak.example was your bank, doesn't care if you got there from a phishing email, from a bogus advert or you just can't spell when typing. It will resolutely refuse to provide mybnak.example with your mybank.example credentials because those strings are not the same. You can press the button over and over, swear, throw things, but because it's based on the URL it won't let you screw yourself.
jcranmer 7y ago
> By your logic, why use HTTPS in the first place? (Or at least why care about certificate validation at all?) Privacy is valuable and relevant, and you need some modicum of authentication to get privacy. The main threat here is "someone who's watching all the traffic go by on the coffee shop wifi"

by comex 7y ago

tialaramex 7y ago

Only what is possible can be done. We have the technology to actually ensure that https://news.ycombinator.com/ https://news.ycombinator.com/ is really https://news.ycombinator.com/ https://news.ycombinator.com/ but we do not have technology that could ensure this is where you get when you type "Hacker News" into Bing. Part of what has to happen to civilisations around technology is that they adjust to what is possible. Different adjustments are possible, the egg washing thing is an example: in some countries you purchase eggs in the state they're laid (which means sometimes there is dirt on the shell), and you don't keep them in a refrigerator; in other countries you purchase eggs "washed" clean and they're refrigerated. Either of these approaches works fine, but mixing them up doesn't work. So, for example, teaching people to bookmark sites is an adjustment that works with our technology, whereas teaching them to get everywhere by following sponsored links on Google not so much. WebAuthn is another example. A Security Key doesn't care that you thought mybnak.example was your bank, doesn't care if you got there from a phishing email, from a bogus advert or you just can't spell when typing. It will resolutely refuse to provide mybnak.example with your mybank.example credentials because those strings are not the same. You can press the button over and over, swear, throw things, but because it's based on the URL it won't let you screw yourself.

jcranmer 7y ago

> By your logic, why use HTTPS in the first place? (Or at least why care about certificate validation at all?) Privacy is valuable and relevant, and you need some modicum of authentication to get privacy. The main threat here is "someone who's watching all the traffic go by on the coffee shop wifi"