4 ms·

We already tried JVM in browsers, remember java applets? I sure remember the security and compatibility problems :) WASM has been designed from the ground up w

by snek 7y ago

We already tried JVM in browsers, remember java applets? I sure remember the security and compatibility problems :) WASM has been designed from the ground up with portability, security, and stability in mind. It is also a lower target than JVM bytecode, which makes it more suitable to represent languages like rust and go. It has also been designed to take advantage of the sandboxed JIT engines that browsers already have for running javascript. Additionally, WASM is an open standard that anyone can contribute to, which is something that is greatly valued on the web.

protomyth 7y ago
We already tried JVM in browsers, remember java applets? I sure remember the security and compatibility problems :) Actually, we didn't really try JVM in the browser. We tried it as a plug-in like Flash. The JVM didn't have access to the DOM like Javascript and WASM will have.
- pjmlp 7y ago
  Actually it did.
  - protomyth 7y ago
    Which browser gave the JVM the same access as Javascript because it sure wasn't Netscape.
    - pjmlp 7y ago
      All of them, given the right access permissions. Better read the documentation? https://docs.oracle.com/javase/tutorial/deployment/applet/manipulatingDOMFromApplet.html https://docs.oracle.com/javase/tutorial/deployment/applet/ma...
      - protomyth 7y ago
        given the right access permissions. So, none of them out-of-the-box like Javascript. Given, it didn't really work as far out as 2005[1] which is 10 years after Javascript was introduced, I stand by my original statement. 1) https://www.eclipsezone.com/eclipse/forums/t16762.html https://www.eclipsezone.com/eclipse/forums/t16762.html
        pjmlp 7y ago
        Which was a good thing, no one likes cryptominers on their pages, other than hackers that is. With WASM it will even get better, Flash that one cannot disable.
ineedasername 7y ago
remember them? Some of us still have the unfortunate pleasure of using them. (Worse: the IT desktop folks have to support a very specific outdated version of IE to keep it functional. I remember hearing that's how a new vendor's "solution" would be delivered, and the facepalm I did at the time. The look on desktop support's face was a bit more pale and filled with dread.)
pjmlp 7y ago
That security part is a bit meh. WASM code generated from languages like C is still open to internal memory corruption caused by out of bounds accesses. If they were fully serious about security, memory tagging would be supported.

by snek 7y ago

protomyth 7y ago

We already tried JVM in browsers, remember java applets? I sure remember the security and compatibility problems :) Actually, we didn't really try JVM in the browser. We tried it as a plug-in like Flash. The JVM didn't have access to the DOM like Javascript and WASM will have.

pjmlp 7y ago
Actually it did.
- protomyth 7y ago
  Which browser gave the JVM the same access as Javascript because it sure wasn't Netscape.
  - pjmlp 7y ago
    All of them, given the right access permissions. Better read the documentation? https://docs.oracle.com/javase/tutorial/deployment/applet/manipulatingDOMFromApplet.html https://docs.oracle.com/javase/tutorial/deployment/applet/ma...
    - protomyth 7y ago
      given the right access permissions. So, none of them out-of-the-box like Javascript. Given, it didn't really work as far out as 2005[1] which is 10 years after Javascript was introduced, I stand by my original statement. 1) https://www.eclipsezone.com/eclipse/forums/t16762.html https://www.eclipsezone.com/eclipse/forums/t16762.html
      - pjmlp 7y ago
        Which was a good thing, no one likes cryptominers on their pages, other than hackers that is. With WASM it will even get better, Flash that one cannot disable.

ineedasername 7y ago

remember them? Some of us still have the unfortunate pleasure of using them. (Worse: the IT desktop folks have to support a very specific outdated version of IE to keep it functional. I remember hearing that's how a new vendor's "solution" would be delivered, and the facepalm I did at the time. The look on desktop support's face was a bit more pale and filled with dread.)

pjmlp 7y ago

That security part is a bit meh. WASM code generated from languages like C is still open to internal memory corruption caused by out of bounds accesses. If they were fully serious about security, memory tagging would be supported.