7 ms·
Death on an Unruly, Overcrowded Everest
- chrisstanchak 7y agoI'd like to see all paywall content banned from HN.
- zyngaro 7y agoThe sight of a queue on the top of the greatest mountain of the world feels so sad.
- empath75 7y agoJust seems emblematic of all the ways we’re fucking the planet up.
- hprotagonist 7y agothe detritus even more than the line. http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/D3C1/production/_95390245_gettyimages-103166035.jpg http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/D3C1/production/_...
- zyngaro 7y agoAnd the way one cannot escape the fucked up parts of this planet at least for a while.
- manfredo 7y agoThis picture from the article basically sums it up: https://static01.nyt.com/images/2019/05/27/world/26everest2-print/merlin_155279730_9a078aae-b874-4b50-9ff4-72a8ec2a93ae-superJumbo.jpg?quality=90&auto=webp https://static01.nyt.com/images/2019/05/27/world/26everest2-... I'm not sure what the appeal of Everest really is anymore now that it's been so developed. I've known people with minimal (as in, hiked up Mount Rainier and some other mountains that are totally achievable for normal people of okay fitness) climbing experience that climbed Everest. I wonder what it'd be if they mandated that people had to climb at least one other or two other 8 thousanders before climbing Everest. It'd probably cut down on the total traffic, while simultaneously generating even more revenue for Nepal as would-be Everest climbers now need to do one or two extra climbs.
- JumpCrisscross 7y agoIs there any way to avoid the queue? I’ve always wanted to summit Everest. But my hatred of lines is stronger.
- manfredo 7y agoClimb during the winter. Of course, this is significantly more challenging. Many of the first winter ascents of 8000+ meter peaks weren't until the 80s, 90s, or even 2000s for some peaks.
- kqr2 7y agoUnlikely. As per the article due to weather conditions there may only be a few windows of opportunities to make the summit which results in the queues.
- peterbraden 7y agoThere are other routes on Everest, they are just considerably harder and you won't be able to be dragged up them by a guide. Of course if you need to be dragged up by a guide you shouldn't be there to begin with.
- zyngaro 7y agoNot all 8 thousanders are in Nepal though.
- sizzzzlerz 7y ago
- lqet 7y agoWhy are people going up there? What is the reward?
- ACow_Adonis 7y agostatus, personal achievement.
- lqet 7y agoStatus? Just look at the picture, you're one in a few hundred.
- maltalex 7y agoThat’s not the picture you show at the dinner party.
- drcode 7y agoNot everybody is going to read that article, so some of the status still remains.
- dorfsmay 7y agoIt's been all over the news this past week.
- Apocryphon 7y agoIt takes a certain level of affluence to climb Everest, so there’s a covert class status signaling too.
- kraftman 7y agoEqually you're a few hundred in a few billion.
- crimsonalucard 7y agoThe historical significance that everest represent precedes the reputation temporarily handed to it by a single internet article.
- drcode 7y agoWhat it boils down to is that there used to be a lot of status given to Everest climbers, inducing the same type of awe that we gave people who've landed on the moon or who won an Olympic gold medal. Unfortunately, not all of this reverence for Everest climbers has disappeared (yet) and unlike those other categories climbing this mountain could be commoditized, turning it into a simple money transaction at this point (yes sure, you still have to endure some hardship to climb Everest.)
- sandworm101 7y ago>> reverence for Everest climbers There is diminished reverence in the climbing community because of the traffic. Everest climbers no longer need many basic climbing skills, from fixing pro to route finding. K2 is the new Everest. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_highest_mountains https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_highest_mountains Pick one. They are all more difficult than Everest these days.
- ianai 7y agoI’m increasingly of the opinion that people shouldn’t be climbing that mountain. It seems like the height of entitlement and hubris.
- paulcole 7y agoTo steal a Metafilter tradition, Hacker News: Seems like the height of entitlement and hubris.
- freeflight 7y agoThat picture with that waiting line to the summit, up to 1.000 feet long according to the article, has something weirdly dystopian to it, just like this whole story. If remote and hostile places like this are already suffering from "overcrowding" due to tourism, then I'm not very optimistic the rest of the planet will fare any better in dealing with the unchecked human population growth and all of its consequences.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- jsloss 7y agoIt’s the most well known climbing destination, not just a “remote and hostile” place. It speaks to the end of the normal distribution curve for experiences/social signalling like this. There’s Everest and there’s the rest.
- dmix 7y agoPretty much everyone in North America and I’m sure Europe and most other countries have heard of Mount Everest since they were a kid. It’s height may be one of the most commonly known facts in the world. Not many other tourist destinations have that level of global recognition. Regardless of the difficulty. The difficulty probably only adds to it’s allure and humane are biologically hard wired to seek hard challenges. It’s not too hard to figure out. The good news is that there are thousands of other mountains around the world so there will never be a shortage to climb... unlike most natural wonders.
- mc32 7y agoApparently there are only two to three days per year when the weather is favorable enough for ascent. This queue only happens two or three times a year, not everyday. So these crowds happen twice or thrice per year. The way picture is circulated it’s as if this were a daily occurrence ala Mount Fuji. That said, this is perfect opportunity to set a limit, have a lottery system and charge an additional non trivial fee for the final summit push.
- booleandilemma 7y agoFrom looking at that ridiculous pic of the people lined up to reach the top of Everest, I gather that it’s much less of a challenge than it used to be. So what are the people who really want to challenge themselves doing nowadays? (Besides writing JavaScript on the server) What’s the new Everest?
- ivalm 7y agoM2 is probably the hardest of the 8k peaks
- sizzzzlerz 7y agoK2
- iamaelephant 7y agoRun a four minute mile. Seems easy? It has been achieved by far, far fewer people than summitting Everest. Best thing is it will cost you some shoes and if you want to get fancy, a GPS watch.
- mongol 7y agoGoing to the moon
- joelrunyon 7y agoEasy fix: Raise prices and/or require people to pass a specific fitness requirement (like you have to qualify for Boston or Ironman). You cut down on lines and reduce the # of people that shouldn't be up there (and endangering other people while they're at it).
- paulcole 7y agoYeah dang, that does seem easy. Wonder if there are other factors that have kept them from implementing these easy fixes?
- thebooktocome 7y agoMoney, rampant corruption, and the other usual obstacles to environmentalism.
- sizzzzlerz 7y agoIn 1996, when the disaster on Everest results in 8 deaths, it cost participants about $65000 to be hauled to the top by "guides". Some 23 years later, that price is probably close to one hundred grand and the mountain is more crowded than before suggesting cost is not a factor here.
- joelrunyon 7y agoIt's the increase in permitting as well. I should have stated that above - raise prices + put limits on # of permits issued. Also - as the article mentioned - gear is better - so it's not as physically treacherous for the avg climber. That said - when things turn bad - you end up with people that shouldn't be up there in the first place.
- hndamien 7y agoThis is a great idea. They want the experience, but also status for the achievement. Well, it just got harder! Everybody wins, except those weak mortals.
- barking 7y agoAll time totals, by the end of 2017: Overall, 4,833 different people have summited Everest for a total of 8,306 summits. While in 2017 itself: In 2017, there were 648 summits. Lots of other interesting stats https://gripped.com/news/mount-everest-numbers-2017-overall/ https://gripped.com/news/mount-everest-numbers-2017-overall/
- 781 7y agoDon't take this as ageist, but when you have 62 year olds reaching the top of Everest, you know it's not what it used to be. BTW, everybody seems to have an oxygen face mask, not to mention modern clothing and base camps.
- mahart 7y agoAnd Sherpa laborers hauling heavy oxygen tanks up ahead.
- sharkweek 7y agoI dabble in mountaineering, mostly in the Cascades, it’s an amazing sport. Everest has an appeal to it of course but the last few years that has dropped to zero. I can’t imagine what it would be like to get stuck in a line like that at the summit. I’m trying to think of a fair solution here, because there are a lot of moving parts. Lower the number of permits / raise prices of legitimate permits too much and the black market flourishes. Not to mention the people who work in that sector of Nepalese tourism suffer greatly. Maybe a fitness test, or proof of past mountaineering experience. But that again seems to open up another can of worms.
- joelrunyon 7y agoWorth noting that the photo that sparked all this controversy the last week is continually used w/out credit / compensation to it's owner (looks like NYT got it through Getty), but overall - incredible how many outlets aren't adhering to normal journalistic standards. https://twitter.com/nimsdai/status/1132632755605573632 https://twitter.com/nimsdai/status/1132632755605573632
- bdz 7y agoWill it be ever possible to fly/lift people there with a helicopter or a yet not-available flying device? Like to the top or near to the top Edit: actually possible and have been done before https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Didier_Delsalle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Didier_Delsalle
- albertgoeswoof 7y agoAir is too thin for helicopters, you can already fly over it in a plane. What would be the point in flying up there anyway.
- dorfsmay 7y agoWhat is the point of being walked there by professional guides and Sherpas?
- rurban 7y agoIt's not professional guides and sherpas anymore, it's an industry. The summit became a pure management problem. The recent "Everest" movie described it very well.
- cjhopman 7y ago> Air is too thin for helicopters That's not true. Helicopters have landed on Everest's summit.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- spraak 7y agoThe microcosm of the macrocosm - the problems on Everest reflect (not perfectly) the problems (trash, corruption, pollution, greed, etc.) everywhere on Earth, that both on Everest and elsewhere are increasing in magnitude and scope.
- dang 7y agohttps://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19996108 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19996108
- sizzzzlerz 7y agoIt seems that Jon Krakauer's 1997 book "Into Thin Air" about the 1996 disaster that resulted in 8 deaths on Everest has encouraged people to go rather than acting as a warning.
- momokoko 7y agoThe type of person that wants to climb Everest is what I refer to as "Checklisters". They have a list of things they want to do so that they can impress others and they run through that list collecting prestige points. Its the same empty emotion as greed. And just like greed it is a bottomless pit where it is never enough. Because of that, when someone tells me they did something like climb Everest, I instantly write them off as a very shallow person that only cares about what other people think of them.
- hhjjkkll 7y agoThose are the same people who denigrate people from "Flyover" states* for not having passports and only living in the U.S.
- ianai 7y agoMaybe there’d be more progress if these greedy people were told they’re not impressing anybody?-preferably somehow politely but firmly.
- jobigoud 7y agoHmmm, I keep a list of things I want to do. Like poke lava with a stick, attend a rocket launch, visit meteor crater, write a tool used by a million people. I don't see it as necessarily bad to have a checklist. It helps manage time.
- ecocentrik 7y agoI think it's amazing that technology and economic incentives allow this kind of absurdity to occur. The story invokes serious cognitive dissonance along with strong emotions of disgust and competitive angst. Visiting Niagara Falls and the Grand Canyon were serious undertakings at some point before they were turned into roadside attractions. The challenges today seem to be the base of the Mariana Trench and Mars while Everest is relegated to the status of Tinder date talking point.