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Some paid, some fought -- it was the fact that they no longer flew the British flag that meant the Americans had to start playing this game too. Piracy certain
by iguy 7y ago
Some paid, some fought -- it was the fact that they no longer flew the British flag that meant the Americans had to start playing this game too.
Piracy certainly wasn't existential. But also wasn't the whole threat -- 1683 must have felt pretty existential in Vienna. As did 1453 in Constantinople. Of course that's not a European state... but that's pretty much the definition.
- coldtea 7y ago>As did 1453 in Constantinople. Of course that's not a European state... but that's pretty much the definition. Well, it [Constantinople and Byzantium] certainly was a European state, the Eastern Roman Empire, which kept the lights on when as the Western one was dissolving and finding itself again after Rome declined.
- iguy 7y agoSure, it was. My point is that claiming something like "no European state faced an existential threat from Arabs" is a bit circular -- the definition of Europe is very close to being those parts of the Roman world which were not (permanently) conquered. (Or if you think it's a geographic term, then the reason this particular geographic lumping is important, as opposed to say Mediterranean.)