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I work at Google and my team has real workloads running on Kubernetes. There's plenty of internal teams that use GCP. Increasingly this might be the direction

I work at Google and my team has real workloads running on Kubernetes. There's plenty of internal teams that use GCP. Increasingly this might be the direction things are heading.

mehrdada 7y ago
GCP itself is a job on Borg. ;)
- justicezyx 7y ago
  That's not true. GCE uses Borg very differently than normal Google internal systems, which you can imagine is quite natural as they are reserving different customers. GCS and other system, in turn, also differ wildly than GCE. when you talk about GCP as a whole, it becomes impossible to summarize in a few statement, and I doubt there is anyone on earth who is capable to describe it coherently even without time constraint.
  - mehrdada 7y ago
    What I said (GCP runs on Borg) is absolutely and technically correct, affirmed by your own comment, which highlights the power and flexibility of Borg. The point being no one[1] at Google relies on Kubernetes for raw cluster management capabilities at scale. They might use it for other things that can make deployment more friendly in some scenarios. (This doesn’t make Kubernetes a bad system by any means, just quite different and not a substitute for Borg whereas gRPC is a direct substitute for Stubby). This debate is better argued in your own eng-misc@ and not on a public forum. [1]: no-one that we care. At Google this is obviously always incorrect. There’s always that someone who uses weird things like mongoDB and AWS.
shereadsthenews 7y ago
And there's no reason why a small project should not. But nobody is going to move, say, indexing to GCP. And when it comes to power laws the big things are big and the small things are not.
- CydeWeys 7y ago
  This sounds like a No True Scotsman argument to me, that if something runs on GCP instead of Borg, it isn't "real". Also throw in shades of moving goalposts. Indexing doesn't run on GCP primarily because it's legacy (as in, the first product Google ever did) and thus long predates GCP itself.
  - shereadsthenews 7y ago
    It’s neither of those fallacies. The fallacy is to suppose that if you know several people using technology X then it must be quite popular. We see this all the time on HN where people suppose that, say, Erlang is quite popular because there are dozens of companies, each with five engineers, using it. But then we ignore that there are five companies with a hundred thousand engineers each that do everything in c++. It’s the same with these other things. It’s quite like that K8s satisfies the requirements of 80% of the projects at Google and it’s also quite likely that all of them put together consume 1% of the production resources, so it leads to the question of whether it’s even capable of solving a really large problem, as mehrdada argues elsewhere in this thread.
    - CydeWeys 7y ago
      It's not a Google product obviously, but Snapchat runs on GCP. That's quite big. Is that not a "real" product? Admittedly they're on App Engine, a much older product than Kubernetes, but I suspect they'd be able to run on Kubernetes, and perhaps that's what they would choose if they were to build from scratch right now.
  - the-rc 7y ago
    Indexing has been rewritten many times over. Even if you removed all the dependencies on Bigtable and co., I think indexing would be the last to move, for quite practical reasons, due to its sheer size and design. The parent poster picked probably the worst workload to migrate to public GCP. Gmail, YouTube and search serving are easier in comparison.

I work at Google and my team has real workloads running on Kubernetes. There's plenty of internal teams that use GCP. Increasingly this might be the direction things are heading.

mehrdada 7y ago

GCP itself is a job on Borg. ;)

justicezyx 7y ago
That's not true. GCE uses Borg very differently than normal Google internal systems, which you can imagine is quite natural as they are reserving different customers. GCS and other system, in turn, also differ wildly than GCE. when you talk about GCP as a whole, it becomes impossible to summarize in a few statement, and I doubt there is anyone on earth who is capable to describe it coherently even without time constraint.
- mehrdada 7y ago
  What I said (GCP runs on Borg) is absolutely and technically correct, affirmed by your own comment, which highlights the power and flexibility of Borg. The point being no one[1] at Google relies on Kubernetes for raw cluster management capabilities at scale. They might use it for other things that can make deployment more friendly in some scenarios. (This doesn’t make Kubernetes a bad system by any means, just quite different and not a substitute for Borg whereas gRPC is a direct substitute for Stubby). This debate is better argued in your own eng-misc@ and not on a public forum. [1]: no-one that we care. At Google this is obviously always incorrect. There’s always that someone who uses weird things like mongoDB and AWS.

shereadsthenews 7y ago

And there's no reason why a small project should not. But nobody is going to move, say, indexing to GCP. And when it comes to power laws the big things are big and the small things are not.

CydeWeys 7y ago
This sounds like a No True Scotsman argument to me, that if something runs on GCP instead of Borg, it isn't "real". Also throw in shades of moving goalposts. Indexing doesn't run on GCP primarily because it's legacy (as in, the first product Google ever did) and thus long predates GCP itself.
- shereadsthenews 7y ago
  It’s neither of those fallacies. The fallacy is to suppose that if you know several people using technology X then it must be quite popular. We see this all the time on HN where people suppose that, say, Erlang is quite popular because there are dozens of companies, each with five engineers, using it. But then we ignore that there are five companies with a hundred thousand engineers each that do everything in c++. It’s the same with these other things. It’s quite like that K8s satisfies the requirements of 80% of the projects at Google and it’s also quite likely that all of them put together consume 1% of the production resources, so it leads to the question of whether it’s even capable of solving a really large problem, as mehrdada argues elsewhere in this thread.
  - CydeWeys 7y ago
    It's not a Google product obviously, but Snapchat runs on GCP. That's quite big. Is that not a "real" product? Admittedly they're on App Engine, a much older product than Kubernetes, but I suspect they'd be able to run on Kubernetes, and perhaps that's what they would choose if they were to build from scratch right now.
- the-rc 7y ago
  Indexing has been rewritten many times over. Even if you removed all the dependencies on Bigtable and co., I think indexing would be the last to move, for quite practical reasons, due to its sheer size and design. The parent poster picked probably the worst workload to migrate to public GCP. Gmail, YouTube and search serving are easier in comparison.