4 ms·

I almost wonder if best practices in the future will incorporate "data hygiene" involving 15-20 minutes of random browsing of topics you're completely uninteres

I almost wonder if best practices in the future will incorporate "data hygiene" involving 15-20 minutes of random browsing of topics you're completely uninterested in, just to add noise to your profile. Why yes, Pampers, I am in the market for adult diapers. And denture cleaner.

jolfdb 7y ago
That doesn't work at all. Are you going to fill your network with people who aren't really your friend? Visit locations you don't want to visit? Devote more than have your time to this disinformation?
greiskul 7y ago
What for? What is your threat model? Getting ads for things you are actually interested in?
- lvna 7y ago
  Historically people have not liked other people building and curating dossiers about them.
- ska 7y ago
  I haven't really resolved my own thinking about all of this, but I think that take is overly simplistic. How about beginning to target dating sites to your partner because they've figured out you are having affair before the partner has? Or divorce attorneys? Or notifying your work recent changes in pattern make you look like a high flight risk? Or your insurance company that you may have an unreported condition? Same basic data sources can feed into that analysis. Those are just obvious ones, and I'm not claiming they are specifically currently being done ... but the basic technology isn't a barrier. This is why it is a bit disingenuous to echo the common refrain "what's so bad about better targeted ads" as if that adequately describes what is at stake.
  - username444 7y ago
    This. And it's not just how it's used today. It's how it can be archived and analyzed 10 years down the road with all the additional information gleaned from you in that time.
- username444 7y ago
  https://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2012/02/16/how-target-figured-out-a-teen-girl-was-pregnant-before-her-father-did/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2012/02/16/how-targ... And that's using 7 year old tech. If one day I develop diabetes and start researching insulin and products, I don't need a company automatically sending me flyers for blood strips. https://techcrunch.com/2017/03/31/the-post-office-will-now-email-you-photos-of-your-mail-before-its-delivered/ https://techcrunch.com/2017/03/31/the-post-office-will-now-e... Oh look, now we historical catalog of all the customized mail that was sent to you, by companies who know what you're looking for. And we all know how reliable and secure government and corporate databases are. /s
jimkleiber 7y ago
I think we're already starting to see it, but not by that name (I love that name, btw). I think the rise in disinformation is a reaction to how hard it is to keep things private. If I can't hide information, then I'll insert false information to make sure nobody knows what is the true information. While I think this may help maintain my privacy, I worry that on a societal level it may help us lose our sanity.
ec109685 7y ago
That is easy to filter out.
- username444 7y ago
  How, for example?
  - cameronbrown 7y ago
    Most humans are bad at coming up with random data and queries, these things would tend to be obviously unrelated to their actual profile. Not to mention that these "randomisation sessions" are very bursty time-wise if it wasn't being done automatically and continuously.
    - kabacha 7y ago
      As far as I understood OP implied it would be an automated process that already exists: https://adnauseam.io/ https://adnauseam.io/
      - ec109685 7y ago
        See the technique Apple uses to gather aggregate data about their customers: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Differential_privacy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Differential_privacy If this technique became widespread, advertisers could compare users A,B C, and … Z to filter out the “random clicks” (since they would all just as equally click these advertisements). This will leave A’s extra clicks still in the data sets letting the advertiser build a profile for A.
        kabacha 7y ago
        > to filter out the “random clicks” (since they would all just as equally click these advertisements). I mean sure it _might_ work against something very basic but adnauseam is a bit more advanced than that. I also avoid trusting any marketing lingo as technological solution. The fact is it would be very hard to catch this, even the most basic implementation. Not only that but it's absolutely not worth doing it as huge huge minority of profiles are compromised, we're talking 0.01% of all profiles here.
glenneroo 7y ago
There's at least one plugin for that: https://noiszy.com/ https://noiszy.com/ With accompanying HN discussions from 2017: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14002995 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14002995

jolfdb 7y ago

That doesn't work at all. Are you going to fill your network with people who aren't really your friend? Visit locations you don't want to visit? Devote more than have your time to this disinformation?

greiskul 7y ago

What for? What is your threat model? Getting ads for things you are actually interested in?

lvna 7y ago
Historically people have not liked other people building and curating dossiers about them.
ska 7y ago
I haven't really resolved my own thinking about all of this, but I think that take is overly simplistic. How about beginning to target dating sites to your partner because they've figured out you are having affair before the partner has? Or divorce attorneys? Or notifying your work recent changes in pattern make you look like a high flight risk? Or your insurance company that you may have an unreported condition? Same basic data sources can feed into that analysis. Those are just obvious ones, and I'm not claiming they are specifically currently being done ... but the basic technology isn't a barrier. This is why it is a bit disingenuous to echo the common refrain "what's so bad about better targeted ads" as if that adequately describes what is at stake.
- username444 7y ago
  This. And it's not just how it's used today. It's how it can be archived and analyzed 10 years down the road with all the additional information gleaned from you in that time.
username444 7y ago
https://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2012/02/16/how-target-figured-out-a-teen-girl-was-pregnant-before-her-father-did/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2012/02/16/how-targ... And that's using 7 year old tech. If one day I develop diabetes and start researching insulin and products, I don't need a company automatically sending me flyers for blood strips. https://techcrunch.com/2017/03/31/the-post-office-will-now-email-you-photos-of-your-mail-before-its-delivered/ https://techcrunch.com/2017/03/31/the-post-office-will-now-e... Oh look, now we historical catalog of all the customized mail that was sent to you, by companies who know what you're looking for. And we all know how reliable and secure government and corporate databases are. /s

jimkleiber 7y ago

I think we're already starting to see it, but not by that name (I love that name, btw). I think the rise in disinformation is a reaction to how hard it is to keep things private. If I can't hide information, then I'll insert false information to make sure nobody knows what is the true information. While I think this may help maintain my privacy, I worry that on a societal level it may help us lose our sanity.

ec109685 7y ago

That is easy to filter out.

username444 7y ago
How, for example?
- cameronbrown 7y ago
  Most humans are bad at coming up with random data and queries, these things would tend to be obviously unrelated to their actual profile. Not to mention that these "randomisation sessions" are very bursty time-wise if it wasn't being done automatically and continuously.
  - kabacha 7y ago
    As far as I understood OP implied it would be an automated process that already exists: https://adnauseam.io/ https://adnauseam.io/
    - ec109685 7y ago
      See the technique Apple uses to gather aggregate data about their customers: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Differential_privacy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Differential_privacy If this technique became widespread, advertisers could compare users A,B C, and … Z to filter out the “random clicks” (since they would all just as equally click these advertisements). This will leave A’s extra clicks still in the data sets letting the advertiser build a profile for A.
      - kabacha 7y ago
        > to filter out the “random clicks” (since they would all just as equally click these advertisements). I mean sure it _might_ work against something very basic but adnauseam is a bit more advanced than that. I also avoid trusting any marketing lingo as technological solution. The fact is it would be very hard to catch this, even the most basic implementation. Not only that but it's absolutely not worth doing it as huge huge minority of profiles are compromised, we're talking 0.01% of all profiles here.

glenneroo 7y ago

There's at least one plugin for that: https://noiszy.com/ https://noiszy.com/ With accompanying HN discussions from 2017: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14002995 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14002995