4 ms·

> Alexa, what are you doing with kids' data? Uhhh, collecting, storing and trying to make profit with it at some point in time? I still wonder why people don't

> Alexa, what are you doing with kids' data? Uhhh, collecting, storing and trying to make profit with it at some point in time? I still wonder why people don't realise this when they buy such system, it's so obvious.

ronsor 7y ago
While it's easy to believe free services like Google are siphoning your data, it's harder to connect that a device you pay for is collecting and selling your data.
- kbenson 7y ago
  It shouldn't be. At this point you need a really good reason to assume a company isn't storing any information it can collect, whether they are monetizing it now or not. It's been proven the information has value. Unless there's some regulation or contract preventing them from doing so, they're going to collect it in the vast majority of cases. Whether they already made money on a service getting the information is irrelevant.
- obenn 7y ago
  I find the best way to convey to people the reason why these smart speakers and devices are so cheap, and seem to be on sale almost perpetually. A growing number of smart devices are being sold at below-cost, using a combination of data harvesting, ads and a proprietary app/skills store to make a profit for the maker after the sale.
  - taxidump 7y ago
    I am not for regulation normally, but I feel we may need to protect our personal data with some type of oversight. The amount of information and personal data these companies hold is frightening.
  - deogeo 7y ago
    The price doesn't actually matter - if they can make more money with ads/data harvesting, they will. When has a corporation ever said no to free money? (Yes it happens but it's damn rare)
  - soulofmischief 7y ago
    Don't forget about the ginormous TCL Roku televisions with "opt-in" Active Content Recognition. Now everyone feels they can afford a 70" TV and don't think twice about it.
    - scarejunba 7y ago
      I mean, they think that because they can. It's a great feature.
      - soulofmischief 7y ago
        Except they don't understand the full scope of the purchase. All of their viewing data is now being recorded. I can afford tons of things when they are subsidized. That's why coal, etc. still seem so sustainable and we think we can afford them as well.
        scarejunba 7y ago
        I think I am fully on-board with giving people the same option Kindle does: * Offer price with view tracking * Offer price without view tracking I cannot argue that this shouldn't be clearly visible, and I think, for the benefit of the consumer this can't be a ridiculous matrix of all the different kinds of tracking. Opt-in or pay the higher price. That sounds fair. But "make it so no one can opt-in": no. That is oppressive nonsense from rich people who would go "How much does a TV cost, man? Ten thousand dollars? Just buy it."
        soulofmischief 7y ago
        Kindle offers advertisements at a discount. I purchased one such model. AFAIK Amazon is not keeping a remote log of every file accessed on my Kindle. Can you point to something saying otherwise? > I cannot argue that this shouldn't be clearly visible, and I think, for the benefit of the consumer this can't be a ridiculous matrix of all the different kinds of tracking. Visibility isn't really an issue either way if it's achieved normality.
- _verandaguy 7y ago
  It's necessary to educate people that while they're purchasing* the hardware, they're receiving the service "for free" (AKA, supported by ads in some way, shape, or form) via the hardware. *purchasing may not even be fully accurate here since loads of companies are starting to treat it like a pay-once licensing fee allowing you to use hardware that they own in perpetuity or until that hardware is no longer supported by the manufacturer.
- throwayEngineer 7y ago
  Kind of confuses me when people say Apple isn't collecting your data. Are these people unaware or fanboys?
- arkades 7y ago
  That’s true. I’m still having trouble internalizing that my multi-hundred-dollar Bose headphones are spying on me. I’ve yet to delete the app, though I should.
  - TeMPOraL 7y ago
    Honestly, this is past the shark-jumping point. When I saw that Bose thread yesterday, my initial reaction was "what in the actual fuck?!". I would have never expected a set of wireless headphones to spy on users. I thought this has optics way too close to actual wiretapping for companies to do that, but I guess I should never be surprised by how low adtech industry can get.
    - arkades 7y ago
      Agreed. Considering the headphones have a mic and are used -for sending and receiving the contents of actual phone calls- it’s hard for me to imagine how prying into their data isn’t wiretapping.
duxup 7y ago
"I bugged my own house, and now my house is bugged!"
donretag 7y ago
Exactly. Don't want it? Then don't buy it. It's really that simple.
- JumpCrisscross 7y ago
  > It's really that simple. No, it isn’t. If people buy these products knowing the terms of the trade, that’s one thing. But a lot of people don’t. This is why we have disclosure regulations.
- deogeo 7y ago
  Until the alternatives disappear.
- rchaud 7y ago
  You know how FB can create shadow profiles of people that have never had an FB account but were tagged on photos or comments? Same principle applies. You may not buy an Alexa speaker, but if you're in the room having a conversation with someone who does, your name and personal information could leak as well. Same goes if the conversation was on a phone loudspeaker. The voice data would have limited usability in its present state, but as Alexa's network effects improve, the signal to noise ratio will only get better.

ronsor 7y ago

While it's easy to believe free services like Google are siphoning your data, it's harder to connect that a device you pay for is collecting and selling your data.

kbenson 7y ago
It shouldn't be. At this point you need a really good reason to assume a company isn't storing any information it can collect, whether they are monetizing it now or not. It's been proven the information has value. Unless there's some regulation or contract preventing them from doing so, they're going to collect it in the vast majority of cases. Whether they already made money on a service getting the information is irrelevant.
obenn 7y ago
I find the best way to convey to people the reason why these smart speakers and devices are so cheap, and seem to be on sale almost perpetually. A growing number of smart devices are being sold at below-cost, using a combination of data harvesting, ads and a proprietary app/skills store to make a profit for the maker after the sale.
- taxidump 7y ago
  I am not for regulation normally, but I feel we may need to protect our personal data with some type of oversight. The amount of information and personal data these companies hold is frightening.
- deogeo 7y ago
  The price doesn't actually matter - if they can make more money with ads/data harvesting, they will. When has a corporation ever said no to free money? (Yes it happens but it's damn rare)
- soulofmischief 7y ago
  Don't forget about the ginormous TCL Roku televisions with "opt-in" Active Content Recognition. Now everyone feels they can afford a 70" TV and don't think twice about it.
  - scarejunba 7y ago
    I mean, they think that because they can. It's a great feature.
    - soulofmischief 7y ago
      Except they don't understand the full scope of the purchase. All of their viewing data is now being recorded. I can afford tons of things when they are subsidized. That's why coal, etc. still seem so sustainable and we think we can afford them as well.
      - scarejunba 7y ago
        I think I am fully on-board with giving people the same option Kindle does: * Offer price with view tracking * Offer price without view tracking I cannot argue that this shouldn't be clearly visible, and I think, for the benefit of the consumer this can't be a ridiculous matrix of all the different kinds of tracking. Opt-in or pay the higher price. That sounds fair. But "make it so no one can opt-in": no. That is oppressive nonsense from rich people who would go "How much does a TV cost, man? Ten thousand dollars? Just buy it."
        soulofmischief 7y ago
        Kindle offers advertisements at a discount. I purchased one such model. AFAIK Amazon is not keeping a remote log of every file accessed on my Kindle. Can you point to something saying otherwise? > I cannot argue that this shouldn't be clearly visible, and I think, for the benefit of the consumer this can't be a ridiculous matrix of all the different kinds of tracking. Visibility isn't really an issue either way if it's achieved normality.
_verandaguy 7y ago
It's necessary to educate people that while they're purchasing* the hardware, they're receiving the service "for free" (AKA, supported by ads in some way, shape, or form) via the hardware. *purchasing may not even be fully accurate here since loads of companies are starting to treat it like a pay-once licensing fee allowing you to use hardware that they own in perpetuity or until that hardware is no longer supported by the manufacturer.
throwayEngineer 7y ago
Kind of confuses me when people say Apple isn't collecting your data. Are these people unaware or fanboys?
arkades 7y ago
That’s true. I’m still having trouble internalizing that my multi-hundred-dollar Bose headphones are spying on me. I’ve yet to delete the app, though I should.
- TeMPOraL 7y ago
  Honestly, this is past the shark-jumping point. When I saw that Bose thread yesterday, my initial reaction was "what in the actual fuck?!". I would have never expected a set of wireless headphones to spy on users. I thought this has optics way too close to actual wiretapping for companies to do that, but I guess I should never be surprised by how low adtech industry can get.
  - arkades 7y ago
    Agreed. Considering the headphones have a mic and are used -for sending and receiving the contents of actual phone calls- it’s hard for me to imagine how prying into their data isn’t wiretapping.

duxup 7y ago

"I bugged my own house, and now my house is bugged!"

donretag 7y ago

Exactly. Don't want it? Then don't buy it. It's really that simple.

JumpCrisscross 7y ago
> It's really that simple. No, it isn’t. If people buy these products knowing the terms of the trade, that’s one thing. But a lot of people don’t. This is why we have disclosure regulations.
deogeo 7y ago
Until the alternatives disappear.
rchaud 7y ago
You know how FB can create shadow profiles of people that have never had an FB account but were tagged on photos or comments? Same principle applies. You may not buy an Alexa speaker, but if you're in the room having a conversation with someone who does, your name and personal information could leak as well. Same goes if the conversation was on a phone loudspeaker. The voice data would have limited usability in its present state, but as Alexa's network effects improve, the signal to noise ratio will only get better.