8 ms·

Living in working in the Berlin tech world, English is already the official working language in most companies. Even as I german i have no problem with this, my

Living in working in the Berlin tech world, English is already the official working language in most companies. Even as I german i have no problem with this, my only gripe is that it makes it very hard for my non-german colleagues to learn german.

Majestic121 7y ago
I have the same issue in Paris, I know some coworkers who have been living in France for more than 8 years, and still can't speak a reasonable French : barely able to order at a restaurant for exemple, definitely not able to hold a conversation. I'm not sure it is actually an issue, it just feels weird as a French person to discover that French is not even required in your own country.
- jacquesm 7y ago
  > it just feels weird as a French person to discover that French is not even required in your own country. And why should it be? In big cities people tend to be more adaptive towards this than outside. If you go outside to the country side the situation will rapidly change. But in every major European capital it is most likely possible to get around on just English. I always make an effort when in France, Germany and Poland to speak the local language but more often than not the locals speak English much better than I speak their language and after a sentence or two the switch is made. Of course making an effort is appreciated anyway but there definitely is no expectation of being able to hold a full conversation in the language of the place you visit.
  - Majestic121 7y ago
    I agree for a place of visit, and I do the same when I can, but for a place to live in, that's a different beast. Again, I'm not saying this is a bad thing, but this realisation was quite surprising to me
  - afiori 7y ago
    Because if you live in a country for 8 years you are bound to encounter limits in where English can support you. Police, hospitals, local doctors, local elections, bureaucracy, food label and shops, information notice and warnings, verbose street sign for road works and many more.
    - jacquesm 7y ago
      Doctors police and just about everybody else here speaks English, street signs are unified across the EU, road works you might get stumped but many navigators will deal with that just fine. A friend of mine has lived in NL for 3 decades now and still does not speak Dutch, I'm sure he's an exception but he does not seem in any way hindered by this particular inability.
7952 7y ago
Why exactly is this? Are there really that many non Germans speakers that you need to use English? And would you use English to have a chat at the water cooler, or down the pub (or locally relevant alternative).
- taejo 7y ago
  > Are there really that many non Germans speakers that you need to use English? I'm not OP, but also at a Berlin tech company. I always say I'm glad I learned German (in a much smaller city elsewhere in Germany) before moving here. You absolutely can learn German here, and I know people who have, but I also know people who've lived here for years and don't know enough to buy a loaf of bread in a bakery. The problem is that you can get away with it: your colleagues can all speak English (and some of them can't speak Germany, in some workplaces, including mine); as an expat, you probably live in a neighborhood with lots of other expats, where the staff in restaurants and shops speak English (and it's not uncommon for waiters to be unable to speak German); you can make your friends exclusively in expat communities, and if you arrive in Berlin speaking no German, that's a lot easier than integrating into the local community without yet knowing its language. It's especially bad if your accent gives away that English is your native language.
- pry86 7y ago
  Germany needs qualified and cheap employees. A lot. Therefore especially in tech there is lot's of companies where most of the workers are foreigners. So they have to speak in English. Otherwise nobody would come :D It sucks, because it's harder to learn German, because you don't use it on daily basis. Myself including. But I find it ridiculous that some people after many years are not able to handle A1. Come on.
- kayoone 7y ago
  In my company and many others, germans are actually in the minority, at least in product and tech. Talent shortage lets companies bring a lot of people from all over the world and English is the lowest common denominator. We have many more people from South America, India, Africa and other parts of Europe than germans in a team of 100+ people. Many restaurants/cafes/bars have non-german staff so in many areas it does not really feel like being in Germany. Personally I love the diversity though. Watercooler talk is usually english unless I am around a group of people where I know that they all speak good german, but that rarely happens tbh. It's more likely to hear another group talking portuguese, spanish or arabic :)

Majestic121 7y ago

I have the same issue in Paris, I know some coworkers who have been living in France for more than 8 years, and still can't speak a reasonable French : barely able to order at a restaurant for exemple, definitely not able to hold a conversation. I'm not sure it is actually an issue, it just feels weird as a French person to discover that French is not even required in your own country.

jacquesm 7y ago
> it just feels weird as a French person to discover that French is not even required in your own country. And why should it be? In big cities people tend to be more adaptive towards this than outside. If you go outside to the country side the situation will rapidly change. But in every major European capital it is most likely possible to get around on just English. I always make an effort when in France, Germany and Poland to speak the local language but more often than not the locals speak English much better than I speak their language and after a sentence or two the switch is made. Of course making an effort is appreciated anyway but there definitely is no expectation of being able to hold a full conversation in the language of the place you visit.
- Majestic121 7y ago
  I agree for a place of visit, and I do the same when I can, but for a place to live in, that's a different beast. Again, I'm not saying this is a bad thing, but this realisation was quite surprising to me
- afiori 7y ago
  Because if you live in a country for 8 years you are bound to encounter limits in where English can support you. Police, hospitals, local doctors, local elections, bureaucracy, food label and shops, information notice and warnings, verbose street sign for road works and many more.
  - jacquesm 7y ago
    Doctors police and just about everybody else here speaks English, street signs are unified across the EU, road works you might get stumped but many navigators will deal with that just fine. A friend of mine has lived in NL for 3 decades now and still does not speak Dutch, I'm sure he's an exception but he does not seem in any way hindered by this particular inability.

7952 7y ago

Why exactly is this? Are there really that many non Germans speakers that you need to use English? And would you use English to have a chat at the water cooler, or down the pub (or locally relevant alternative).

taejo 7y ago
> Are there really that many non Germans speakers that you need to use English? I'm not OP, but also at a Berlin tech company. I always say I'm glad I learned German (in a much smaller city elsewhere in Germany) before moving here. You absolutely can learn German here, and I know people who have, but I also know people who've lived here for years and don't know enough to buy a loaf of bread in a bakery. The problem is that you can get away with it: your colleagues can all speak English (and some of them can't speak Germany, in some workplaces, including mine); as an expat, you probably live in a neighborhood with lots of other expats, where the staff in restaurants and shops speak English (and it's not uncommon for waiters to be unable to speak German); you can make your friends exclusively in expat communities, and if you arrive in Berlin speaking no German, that's a lot easier than integrating into the local community without yet knowing its language. It's especially bad if your accent gives away that English is your native language.
pry86 7y ago
Germany needs qualified and cheap employees. A lot. Therefore especially in tech there is lot's of companies where most of the workers are foreigners. So they have to speak in English. Otherwise nobody would come :D It sucks, because it's harder to learn German, because you don't use it on daily basis. Myself including. But I find it ridiculous that some people after many years are not able to handle A1. Come on.
kayoone 7y ago
In my company and many others, germans are actually in the minority, at least in product and tech. Talent shortage lets companies bring a lot of people from all over the world and English is the lowest common denominator. We have many more people from South America, India, Africa and other parts of Europe than germans in a team of 100+ people. Many restaurants/cafes/bars have non-german staff so in many areas it does not really feel like being in Germany. Personally I love the diversity though. Watercooler talk is usually english unless I am around a group of people where I know that they all speak good german, but that rarely happens tbh. It's more likely to hear another group talking portuguese, spanish or arabic :)