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I think that by now everyone realizes that there are EU skeptics in all member countries. There will always be. Around 25 percent of Americans want their state

by flexie 7y ago

I think that by now everyone realizes that there are EU skeptics in all member countries. There will always be. Around 25 percent of Americans want their state to secede (1). A lot of Italians want Northern Italy to part with Southern Italy. Spain has Catalan and Basque separatists. The UK has Scotland, and perhaps even Northern Ireland. There are many people in many places that think they would be better off in a more (formally) independent state. For now, the EU skeptics are a small minority in most EU countries. I for one hope it stays like that. The EU has shown remarkable unity when met with Brexit. 1: http://blogs.reuters.com/jamesrgaines/2014/09/19/one-in-four-americans-want-their-state-to-secede-from-the-u-s-but-why/ http://blogs.reuters.com/jamesrgaines/2014/09/19/one-in-four...

jacquesm 7y ago
Once upon a time Amsterdam was at war with other cities. What those people do not realize is that the only alternative to further European integration is another war, the more and the smaller the slices are the more certain that future becomes. Just the UK seceding from the EU increases the chances of such a thing happening tremendously.
- antientropic 7y ago
  > the only alternative to further European integration is another war False dichotomy. Surely the same level of integration, or even a slightly lower level of integration, will not necessarily lead to war. EU members were already quite peaceful before the adoption of the Lisbon treaty, for instance. And you should also at least entertain the possibility that integrating populations further than they're willing to go increases the odds of conflict.
  - jacquesm 7y ago
    The same level would be fine but it is either the top of the hill or the beginning of the downslope. The EU made several critical mistakes in the way they approached their growth and integration issues and those in turn could very well lead to a final desintegration or split of the bloc. The UK leaving is a very bad sign, given that they already had one of the most exceptional positions within the EU. Time will tell. Of course the integration 'by force' (Maastricht for one, Lisbon for another) was utterly dumb, it feels to me as though they thought 'now or never' not realizing that they may be planting the seeds for the eventual dismantling of the union.

by flexie 7y ago

jacquesm 7y ago

Once upon a time Amsterdam was at war with other cities. What those people do not realize is that the only alternative to further European integration is another war, the more and the smaller the slices are the more certain that future becomes. Just the UK seceding from the EU increases the chances of such a thing happening tremendously.

antientropic 7y ago
> the only alternative to further European integration is another war False dichotomy. Surely the same level of integration, or even a slightly lower level of integration, will not necessarily lead to war. EU members were already quite peaceful before the adoption of the Lisbon treaty, for instance. And you should also at least entertain the possibility that integrating populations further than they're willing to go increases the odds of conflict.
- jacquesm 7y ago
  The same level would be fine but it is either the top of the hill or the beginning of the downslope. The EU made several critical mistakes in the way they approached their growth and integration issues and those in turn could very well lead to a final desintegration or split of the bloc. The UK leaving is a very bad sign, given that they already had one of the most exceptional positions within the EU. Time will tell. Of course the integration 'by force' (Maastricht for one, Lisbon for another) was utterly dumb, it feels to me as though they thought 'now or never' not realizing that they may be planting the seeds for the eventual dismantling of the union.