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A way less interesting comment on the Euclid–Mullin sequence, for anyone who's just learned about it in a math class: it is common to take away the wrong lesso
by JadeNB 7y ago
A way less interesting comment on the Euclid–Mullin sequence, for anyone who's just learned about it in a math class: it is common to take away the wrong lesson "the product of all the primes so far, plus 1, is always prime." (Even if it's totally obvious to you that this is false, I assure you that it's not obvious to everyone. Sigh, I've also just noticed that, by skipping to the part of the article about interesting unsolved questions, I missed that the author says exactly this. Sorry! Hopefully the rest of the comment is worth something.)
This succeeds for a little while, since (the product of no primes) + 1 is 2, 2 + 1 is 3, 2·3 + 1 is 7, and 2·3·7 + 1 is 43, and most math geeks will recognise these as primes. However, it fails immediately after: 2·3·7·43 + 1 is 13·139. (If you take "all the primes so far" to mean not just "all the primes generated this way" but "all primes less than or equal to those generated this way", then we get a slightly different trajectory: after 7 comes 2·3·5·7 + 1 = 211, which is prime; and then the so-called primorial (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primorial https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primorial) 211# has a successor that is huge, way bigger than 2297, but is divisible by 2297.)
It is possible to modify the sequence so that it proveably generates all primes; see, for example, Booker - A variant of the Euclid–Mullin sequence containing every prime (https://arxiv.org/abs/1605.08929 https://arxiv.org/abs/1605.08929). According to Wikipedia, the notion was introduced in Mullin - Recursive function theory (A modern look at a Euclidean idea) (https://doi.org/10.1090%2FS0002-9904-1963-11017-4 https://doi.org/10.1090%2FS0002-9904-1963-11017-4).
EDIT: Replying to child (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20017324 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20017324 )—sorry for doing it here; I'm "posting too fast", but don't want to ignore it:
> I'm genuinely confused by this. I don't see how 2·3·7·43 is "the product of all the primes so far", since 11, 13, 17, 19, 23, 29, 31, 37, and 41 are missing.
> Does the author mean "all the primes generated by the sequence", or "all the primes up to a certain number"? I always thought the Euclid method involved the latter.
Just to be clear, I'm not the author of the linked post. I did write "all the primes so far" to mean "all the primes generated in this way", which is the sense in which Mullin used it in the article linked above. Both approaches work to generate 'new' primes, in the sense that they're not among the primes multiplied together; but you must use the primorial if you want to generate new, bigger primes. I edited to take into account the more natural interpretation (see the parenthetical above), but probably it was while you were posting.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- human20190310 7y agoI only just now understood that Euclid's method doesn't necessarily generate a prime number; it produces a number that you can't "get to" by multiplying the primes in your list of prime numbers; as such any list of primes is incomplete.
- eridius 7y agoAnd since you can't "get to" it with your existing list, this means the prime factorization of this new number includes at least one prime not on your list, and therefore you can grow your list with every step (assuming you're capable of prime factorizing arbitrary numbers).
- MaxBarraclough 7y agoFurther off-topic: 1 + 2^(2^n) is prime where n is an element of {0,1,2,3,4}, but not 5. This went unnoticed for a century - Fermat went his life suspecting that it held for all naturals. (Pre-computer days, of course.) https://matheducators.stackexchange.com/a/16640/ https://matheducators.stackexchange.com/a/16640/
- saagarjha 7y agoThis is a surprisingly small number for it to go unnoticed for a century. I'm pretty sure I wrote up a list of the first 50 or so powers of two to pass time in elementary school: if someone told me to, I could have checked the primality of numbers of the form 2^(2^n)+1 as well (though it'd be somewhat more tedious).
- JadeNB 7y agoOf course you mean numbers of the form 2^(2^n) + 1; without the increment, primality is easy to check. :-) Anyway, are you sure that it would be so easy to check primality of 15-decimal-digit numbers without even a pocket calculator, especially with no guarantee that there was any reason to do so? (Notice, for example, that you needed to add "if someone told me to".) For more on this, see KConrad's comment https://matheducators.stackexchange.com/questions/16636/is-there-a-simple-example-that-empirical-evidence-is-misleading/16640#comment41945_16640 https://matheducators.stackexchange.com/questions/16636/is-t... and kcrisman's comment https://matheducators.stackexchange.com/questions/16636/is-there-a-simple-example-that-empirical-evidence-is-misleading/16640#comment41973_16640 https://matheducators.stackexchange.com/questions/16636/is-t... on the post linked by your parent.