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I feel like Anil Dash is pretty much the last person who should be talking about internet “assholes”. He’s very often on the front lines of Twitter mobs and is

I feel like Anil Dash is pretty much the last person who should be talking about internet “assholes”. He’s very often on the front lines of Twitter mobs and is generally extremely caustic. He should reflect on his own behavior online before preaching to anyone else.

tlholaday 7y ago
> I feel like Anil Dash is pretty much the last person who should be talking about internet “assholes”. Your feelings may have tempted you into making this off-topic post. The linked essay concerns comment section protocols, not personalities.
- kinkrtyavimoodh 7y ago
  And the post you replied to is also talking about how Anil Dash behaves on Twitter (== comment section of an online community), and I agree with them that though he might not agree with this assessment, Dash's behavior is more likely to fall on the asshole side than not. This isn't about the ad-hominem. The general point Dash is trying to make is fine. But it's easy to preach about not allowing assholes when you don't consider yourself to be one. The day the zeitgeist shifts considerably in the favor of assessing him as an asshole, I suspect Dash might sing a very different tune about site moderation policies.
braythwayt 7y ago
This is a fairly classic ad hominem comment. What difference does it make who makes this argument, if the argument itself is sound? On the other hand, if the man is 50% saint, 50% angel, and 50% genius, what difference would that make, if the argument itself was terrible? Comments suggesting that he shouldn't make this argument do not actually address the argument itself. In the best case, they are a distraction from the subject being discussed. In the worst case, they are a form of tone policing, which is a tactic for silencing sound arguments by complaining that they are not being made by the right people, or in the right way. Example: A man murders another man. The police torture him into a confession. He complains about the torture. Is he the last person that should be complaining about violence? But if not him, who? Must we wait for the perfect angel of an innocent victim of police brutality, before we act on it?
- kinkrtyavimoodh 7y ago
  It does make a difference when you believe that the reason Dash is making this kind of argument is because of his life experiences (or lack thereof). The general point Dash is trying to make about moderating communities is fine. But it's easy to preach about not allowing assholes when you don't consider yourself to be one. The day the zeitgeist shifts considerably in the favor of assessing him as an asshole, I suspect Dash might sing a very different tune about site moderation policies.
  - braythwayt 7y ago
    The comment said he shouldn't make the argument. That's one kind of ad hominem, a tu quoque You're (possibly unwittingly) making another, an ad hominem circumstantial, by questioning his motives. It's always best to just debate the argument itself and leave the author's character and motives and misconceptions out of it. Otherwise we end up spending a lot of time discussing Mr. Dash, instead of discussing moderation of online communities,.
    - malvosenior 7y ago
      It really is as simple as Dash’s online behavior being “assholish”. It’s on the topic of the post, he’s just an extreme example of the behavior he’s lambasting.
      - braythwayt 7y ago
        Whether I agree or disagree with your characterization of him, what does that have to do with whether people who run online communities should be responsible for moderating them? It isn't on topic, unless you want to say, "Since Dash is an asshole, that is proof that there exists at least one asshole on the internet, which supports part of the argument he makes." The premise of the argument is that moderation is a moral imperative. Nothing about Mr. Dash's character supports or refutes that argument.
        7y ago

tlholaday 7y ago

> I feel like Anil Dash is pretty much the last person who should be talking about internet “assholes”. Your feelings may have tempted you into making this off-topic post. The linked essay concerns comment section protocols, not personalities.

kinkrtyavimoodh 7y ago
And the post you replied to is also talking about how Anil Dash behaves on Twitter (== comment section of an online community), and I agree with them that though he might not agree with this assessment, Dash's behavior is more likely to fall on the asshole side than not. This isn't about the ad-hominem. The general point Dash is trying to make is fine. But it's easy to preach about not allowing assholes when you don't consider yourself to be one. The day the zeitgeist shifts considerably in the favor of assessing him as an asshole, I suspect Dash might sing a very different tune about site moderation policies.

braythwayt 7y ago

This is a fairly classic ad hominem comment. What difference does it make who makes this argument, if the argument itself is sound? On the other hand, if the man is 50% saint, 50% angel, and 50% genius, what difference would that make, if the argument itself was terrible? Comments suggesting that he shouldn't make this argument do not actually address the argument itself. In the best case, they are a distraction from the subject being discussed. In the worst case, they are a form of tone policing, which is a tactic for silencing sound arguments by complaining that they are not being made by the right people, or in the right way. Example: A man murders another man. The police torture him into a confession. He complains about the torture. Is he the last person that should be complaining about violence? But if not him, who? Must we wait for the perfect angel of an innocent victim of police brutality, before we act on it?

kinkrtyavimoodh 7y ago
It does make a difference when you believe that the reason Dash is making this kind of argument is because of his life experiences (or lack thereof). The general point Dash is trying to make about moderating communities is fine. But it's easy to preach about not allowing assholes when you don't consider yourself to be one. The day the zeitgeist shifts considerably in the favor of assessing him as an asshole, I suspect Dash might sing a very different tune about site moderation policies.
- braythwayt 7y ago
  The comment said he shouldn't make the argument. That's one kind of ad hominem, a tu quoque You're (possibly unwittingly) making another, an ad hominem circumstantial, by questioning his motives. It's always best to just debate the argument itself and leave the author's character and motives and misconceptions out of it. Otherwise we end up spending a lot of time discussing Mr. Dash, instead of discussing moderation of online communities,.
  - malvosenior 7y ago
    It really is as simple as Dash’s online behavior being “assholish”. It’s on the topic of the post, he’s just an extreme example of the behavior he’s lambasting.
    - braythwayt 7y ago
      Whether I agree or disagree with your characterization of him, what does that have to do with whether people who run online communities should be responsible for moderating them? It isn't on topic, unless you want to say, "Since Dash is an asshole, that is proof that there exists at least one asshole on the internet, which supports part of the argument he makes." The premise of the argument is that moderation is a moral imperative. Nothing about Mr. Dash's character supports or refutes that argument.
      - 7y ago