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I absolutely don't know anyone who was saying that about Japanese electronics in the 1970s in my part of US flyover country. Sony was considered to be one of t

by dfrage 7y ago

I absolutely don't know anyone who was saying that about Japanese electronics in the 1970s in my part of US flyover country. Sony was considered to be one of the very best in the world, and my family was greatly disappointed in the 1980s when Sony moved a lot of manufacturing to Mexico and they had to fix many cold solder joints on TV sets. If you wanted a good reel to reel tape deck, Teac was your first choice. One thing left out of this formulation is that it was realized at some point, certainly by the 1970s for electronics, that the Japanese added "and improve", which no one says about the Chinese. Who are said to have a pattern more than a century old of steadily decreasing quality until the customer complains. Different culture, vastly different societal trust levels, Japan high, China low, different results.

NeedMoreTea 7y ago
Maybe US experience was different - I certainly remember that impression through the seventies, and the reputation mainly being with the Euro makes - Dual, Grundig, Quad, Tannoy etc. Sony TV had reputation for poor colour. I think they modified their NTSC designs to PAL, or shared something with the US standard. Enough to be noticed by customers anyway. That reputation stuck around a while, but was fading when Walkman arrived (early 80s?), and by the end of the decade they had a solid reputation among the best TVs. Couldn't tell you when they adopted PAL "properly". By the end of the 80s, Japanese makes had cornered the mass market, and were chipping away at the higher end, and many of the Euro brands fading, or disappearing.
- dfrage 7y ago
  Sounds like it. None of the brand names you mention were known in my part of the US at the time, and I don't even recognize any of them today except for Gundig. For TVs, Japan very conveniently for the US shares the same NSTC standard, their only issue is that half of Honshuu, the big island, is on 50 cycle power, the other on 60 cycles (both at 110-120V for consumers like the US with our 60 cycle power). So with their two biggest markets being satisfied with the same gear, I can well imagine the fragmented European market suffering. Note also SECAM for France, countries it influenced, and apparently Eastern Europe per Wikipedia either initially so its subjects under Soviet domination couldn't receive PAL signals from across the Iron Curtain, or because it's insensitive to amplitude and phase variations from long cable or microwave links. What about radios? While Sony pioneered the small and inexpensive lo-fi radio with their own transistors, this was very big in the 1950s through the 1960s, but by the time I was paying attention in the 1970s no Japanese company had a commanding lead in radios in the US, they were pretty much a low end commodity by then, except for shortwave sets, which weren't big in the US by then. The first Walkman was released in Japan in 1979, the brand and general format was very big in the US by the early 1980s: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walkman https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walkman Sony and Phillips also closely collaborated on the Compact Disc, its capacity was supposedly dictated by one Sony guy's insistence that Beethoven's Ninth Symphony as conducted by Herbert von Karajan would fit on one (you have to split a movement between sides for a single vinyl LP release, that was very annoying). They also scored a big early hit two years later in late 1984 with a very small CD player, the head of the project estimated how small was possible with current technology, made a block of wood that size, and challenged his engineers to make one no bigger. Ah, the "Discman", it was per Wikipedia and my memory very important in the early adoption of CDs: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discman https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discman
  - NeedMoreTea 7y ago
    Interesting, I didn't know Japan was also on NTSC. That explains the way PAL turned out. I found a reference on Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trinitron https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trinitron "The decoder inside the UK-sold Sony color Trinitron sets ... had an NTSC decoder adapted for PAL. ... Any phase errors could then be compensated for by using a tint control knob on the front of the set, normally unneeded on a PAL set". Presumably also applied in other PAL countries too, or they entered those markets a little later. TV's to choose in 1979 were probably British Ferguson, Dutch Philips, and German Grundig. In 1989, replace Ferguson (I think they were taken over sometime in the 80s) with Sony. Philips were the most likely to innovate and bring out new ideas, like Laserdisc (with MCA) or V2000 video recorders, that was best quality of the three, and first format to leave the market. I also only started being aware in the 70s. Portable Radios seems a very similar picture to the US - Sony was here, but no one really had the market. So plenty from Philips, Braun - with that iconic design that gave the iPod design, Brother at the more expensive end, along with lots of cheaper makes from both Europe and Japan. ITT was about the only non-professional US make I can remember with much presence here. There's bound to be one I missed. Short wave was Grundig and Philips for the hobbyists, with a few from Brother. Brother are still going, and doing quite well in DAB radios, especially with models that are digital versions of 50s and 60s successes. Tannoy is the common generic term for a PA system here, they moved into home audio and speakers. They're long bought out into a group making hifi and speakers, along with Quad and Wharfedale. German Dual are still around, and were one of the mid range but quality audio and turntable makers of late 70s and early 80s. Now I think just expensive turntables after a buyout or failure or two. Walkman was, of course, huge. I think that and the ghetto blaster fashion pushed all the Japanese brands right to the front of the market in the early 80s. Even though the boombox was also a Philips idea they were never the most desired brand. Philips kept their reputation for TV though, with some of the best late-CRT models. So Japan and Sony race ahead, Sony's former mixed reputation being thoroughly forgotten, and in the process completely transformed the market. Few of the older brands could keep up. All the Japanese makes became a success - Pioneer, Sanyo, Sharp, Aiwa, Marantz, Panasonic/Technics, Hitachi etc, even though one or two weren't very good yet! Then Sony upped the stakes with the remarkable pro Walkman models - that few could respond well to. Japan ended up taking the reputations for just about everything except high-end hifi and notably speakers - where they struggled, but even there they made some inroads. Several Japanese brands started designing and making speakers in Europe or using Wharfedale or Tannoy. I think Panasonic/Technics and Denon may still. I'm sure I forgot a few bits of the timeline. :)

by dfrage 7y ago

NeedMoreTea 7y ago

Maybe US experience was different - I certainly remember that impression through the seventies, and the reputation mainly being with the Euro makes - Dual, Grundig, Quad, Tannoy etc. Sony TV had reputation for poor colour. I think they modified their NTSC designs to PAL, or shared something with the US standard. Enough to be noticed by customers anyway. That reputation stuck around a while, but was fading when Walkman arrived (early 80s?), and by the end of the decade they had a solid reputation among the best TVs. Couldn't tell you when they adopted PAL "properly". By the end of the 80s, Japanese makes had cornered the mass market, and were chipping away at the higher end, and many of the Euro brands fading, or disappearing.

dfrage 7y ago
Sounds like it. None of the brand names you mention were known in my part of the US at the time, and I don't even recognize any of them today except for Gundig. For TVs, Japan very conveniently for the US shares the same NSTC standard, their only issue is that half of Honshuu, the big island, is on 50 cycle power, the other on 60 cycles (both at 110-120V for consumers like the US with our 60 cycle power). So with their two biggest markets being satisfied with the same gear, I can well imagine the fragmented European market suffering. Note also SECAM for France, countries it influenced, and apparently Eastern Europe per Wikipedia either initially so its subjects under Soviet domination couldn't receive PAL signals from across the Iron Curtain, or because it's insensitive to amplitude and phase variations from long cable or microwave links. What about radios? While Sony pioneered the small and inexpensive lo-fi radio with their own transistors, this was very big in the 1950s through the 1960s, but by the time I was paying attention in the 1970s no Japanese company had a commanding lead in radios in the US, they were pretty much a low end commodity by then, except for shortwave sets, which weren't big in the US by then. The first Walkman was released in Japan in 1979, the brand and general format was very big in the US by the early 1980s: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walkman https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walkman Sony and Phillips also closely collaborated on the Compact Disc, its capacity was supposedly dictated by one Sony guy's insistence that Beethoven's Ninth Symphony as conducted by Herbert von Karajan would fit on one (you have to split a movement between sides for a single vinyl LP release, that was very annoying). They also scored a big early hit two years later in late 1984 with a very small CD player, the head of the project estimated how small was possible with current technology, made a block of wood that size, and challenged his engineers to make one no bigger. Ah, the "Discman", it was per Wikipedia and my memory very important in the early adoption of CDs: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discman https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discman
- NeedMoreTea 7y ago
  Interesting, I didn't know Japan was also on NTSC. That explains the way PAL turned out. I found a reference on Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trinitron https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trinitron "The decoder inside the UK-sold Sony color Trinitron sets ... had an NTSC decoder adapted for PAL. ... Any phase errors could then be compensated for by using a tint control knob on the front of the set, normally unneeded on a PAL set". Presumably also applied in other PAL countries too, or they entered those markets a little later. TV's to choose in 1979 were probably British Ferguson, Dutch Philips, and German Grundig. In 1989, replace Ferguson (I think they were taken over sometime in the 80s) with Sony. Philips were the most likely to innovate and bring out new ideas, like Laserdisc (with MCA) or V2000 video recorders, that was best quality of the three, and first format to leave the market. I also only started being aware in the 70s. Portable Radios seems a very similar picture to the US - Sony was here, but no one really had the market. So plenty from Philips, Braun - with that iconic design that gave the iPod design, Brother at the more expensive end, along with lots of cheaper makes from both Europe and Japan. ITT was about the only non-professional US make I can remember with much presence here. There's bound to be one I missed. Short wave was Grundig and Philips for the hobbyists, with a few from Brother. Brother are still going, and doing quite well in DAB radios, especially with models that are digital versions of 50s and 60s successes. Tannoy is the common generic term for a PA system here, they moved into home audio and speakers. They're long bought out into a group making hifi and speakers, along with Quad and Wharfedale. German Dual are still around, and were one of the mid range but quality audio and turntable makers of late 70s and early 80s. Now I think just expensive turntables after a buyout or failure or two. Walkman was, of course, huge. I think that and the ghetto blaster fashion pushed all the Japanese brands right to the front of the market in the early 80s. Even though the boombox was also a Philips idea they were never the most desired brand. Philips kept their reputation for TV though, with some of the best late-CRT models. So Japan and Sony race ahead, Sony's former mixed reputation being thoroughly forgotten, and in the process completely transformed the market. Few of the older brands could keep up. All the Japanese makes became a success - Pioneer, Sanyo, Sharp, Aiwa, Marantz, Panasonic/Technics, Hitachi etc, even though one or two weren't very good yet! Then Sony upped the stakes with the remarkable pro Walkman models - that few could respond well to. Japan ended up taking the reputations for just about everything except high-end hifi and notably speakers - where they struggled, but even there they made some inroads. Several Japanese brands started designing and making speakers in Europe or using Wharfedale or Tannoy. I think Panasonic/Technics and Denon may still. I'm sure I forgot a few bits of the timeline. :)