4 ms·

In researching what we can do about climate change, the most convincing proposed policy solution I've seen comes from the Citizen's Climate Lobby -- a Carbon Fe

by oski 7y ago

In researching what we can do about climate change, the most convincing proposed policy solution I've seen comes from the Citizen's Climate Lobby -- a Carbon Fee and Dividend (https://citizensclimatelobby.org/basics-carbon-fee-dividend/ https://citizensclimatelobby.org/basics-carbon-fee-dividend/), which I learned about while reading "Being the Change" by Dr. Peter Kalmus. Basically, it's a plan for a carbon tax along with a rebate program (similar to UBI in my opinion) so that the least well off financially don't get crushed by things like higher gas prices.

Pxtl 7y ago
That's actually what was implemented in Canada last month on all provinces that didn't run their own carbon pricing system. You'd think everybody could get behind it, right? I got $300 on my tax rebate as an advance for this year's carbon pricing. Of course the conservatives hate it, because their carbon plan is "no." And they're on track to win in November.
- village-idiot 7y ago
  When did the world’s conservative parties turn into death cults?
  - Al-Khwarizmi 7y ago
    In debates about politics I have often heard that environmental problems are transversal, independent on the left-right spectrum, that the environment and ecology can be defended from the left or from the right... and from an ideal, abstract, theoretical point, that's true, how could one deny that? There is no reason why a conservative should want to destroy the planet - in fact, the very word "conservative" is pretty much against that. However, in practice, I am still yet to see a right-wing party that gives a damn about the environment. Be it at the European level, national level, regional level or even at the city level. Go to any random city in my region, read the platform of left-wing parties, and you will typically see bike lanes, bus lanes, pedestrianization, etc. Read the platform of right-wing parties, and you will see more asphalt, more lanes, more parking spaces. City-level elections are supposed to be much more about the candidate, and less about the party, but they still spontaneously group like that. It shouldn't be like that, and maybe in some other countries it's not like that, I'm not claiming this is universal. But in my country, it certainly is like that.
    - MisterBastahrd 7y ago
      Conservatives USED to be about conservation back when the wealthy typically still used the outdoors, specifically hunting, fishing, and hiking for recreation. New forms of recreation, new methods of transportation, and an urbanization of the financial elite have pretty much eliminated that aspect.
    - empath75 7y ago
      I think the wealthy elites have realized that it’s a hopeless cause and are trying to put themselves into the best position to weather the storm.
- ttul 7y ago
  We shall see. A lot can change between now and then. The SNC affair will fade over the summer and the truth is the economy is doing very well - that typically drives election results.
  - Pxtl 7y ago
    I wish I shared your optimism. I keep worrying we're going to see a repeat of Ontario's provincial election.
mushufasa 7y ago
They put up a petition on the website I built to get Vanguard, the largest mutual fund manager, to support the Carbon Fee and Dividend. There are over 500,000 shares of vanguard already supporting, with a goal of 1m. If you have Vanguard shares, want to support this to move it forward? https://www.yourstake.org/ask/vanguard-vanguard-endorse-a-national-price-on-carbon/ https://www.yourstake.org/ask/vanguard-vanguard-endorse-a-na...
joshe 7y ago
100% of the carbon tax comes back as dividends to individuals. We can keep spending that money on carbon intensive products and can consume the same mix of products. But because we can now spend the money on other things instead, we might find that it's worth buying the electric car instead of the gas car. People won't be forced into rapidly giving up their current patterns of life and work. It also avoids objections from conservatives about creating more governmental regulations, subsidies, complicated carbon credits, and interest groups. And like the very popular Social Security it's simple to explain. For concreteness, you would get $300 per month. That would equal the increase in prices you'd see at the gas pump, your electric bill, and in products. Change nothing and nothing in your life changes. Replace these higher priced carbon intensive products with better alternatives and you have extra money you can spend on other stuff.
- kortilla 7y ago
  >you would get $300 per month. That would equal the increase in prices you'd see at the gas pump, your electric bill, and in products. That doesn’t make sense though. What’s the incentive to switch to a lower carbon tax if you get all of the tax rebated to you at the end of the month? If you don’t get it all back, then it’s not equal to the price increases.
  - lozenge 7y ago
    It would be $300 per month for everybody, so some people would end up less well off and others more.
  - Pxtl 7y ago
    It's both carrot and stick. The average person breaks even. The green person comes out ahead. The wasteful person is in the red, and has a strong incentive to be greener. Now, a fun wrinkle is that on average, most of us are below average. Sorry, joke. What I mean is that the median output is below the average output. That's because it's not a linear curve, but a slope where the byper-wealthy have disproportionate weight. So because the median is below the average, it's also a progressive scheme in that the majority of participants will be at break-even or better.

by oski 7y ago

Pxtl 7y ago

That's actually what was implemented in Canada last month on all provinces that didn't run their own carbon pricing system. You'd think everybody could get behind it, right? I got $300 on my tax rebate as an advance for this year's carbon pricing. Of course the conservatives hate it, because their carbon plan is "no." And they're on track to win in November.

village-idiot 7y ago
When did the world’s conservative parties turn into death cults?
- Al-Khwarizmi 7y ago
  In debates about politics I have often heard that environmental problems are transversal, independent on the left-right spectrum, that the environment and ecology can be defended from the left or from the right... and from an ideal, abstract, theoretical point, that's true, how could one deny that? There is no reason why a conservative should want to destroy the planet - in fact, the very word "conservative" is pretty much against that. However, in practice, I am still yet to see a right-wing party that gives a damn about the environment. Be it at the European level, national level, regional level or even at the city level. Go to any random city in my region, read the platform of left-wing parties, and you will typically see bike lanes, bus lanes, pedestrianization, etc. Read the platform of right-wing parties, and you will see more asphalt, more lanes, more parking spaces. City-level elections are supposed to be much more about the candidate, and less about the party, but they still spontaneously group like that. It shouldn't be like that, and maybe in some other countries it's not like that, I'm not claiming this is universal. But in my country, it certainly is like that.
  - MisterBastahrd 7y ago
    Conservatives USED to be about conservation back when the wealthy typically still used the outdoors, specifically hunting, fishing, and hiking for recreation. New forms of recreation, new methods of transportation, and an urbanization of the financial elite have pretty much eliminated that aspect.
  - empath75 7y ago
    I think the wealthy elites have realized that it’s a hopeless cause and are trying to put themselves into the best position to weather the storm.
ttul 7y ago
We shall see. A lot can change between now and then. The SNC affair will fade over the summer and the truth is the economy is doing very well - that typically drives election results.
- Pxtl 7y ago
  I wish I shared your optimism. I keep worrying we're going to see a repeat of Ontario's provincial election.

mushufasa 7y ago

They put up a petition on the website I built to get Vanguard, the largest mutual fund manager, to support the Carbon Fee and Dividend. There are over 500,000 shares of vanguard already supporting, with a goal of 1m. If you have Vanguard shares, want to support this to move it forward? https://www.yourstake.org/ask/vanguard-vanguard-endorse-a-national-price-on-carbon/ https://www.yourstake.org/ask/vanguard-vanguard-endorse-a-na...

joshe 7y ago

100% of the carbon tax comes back as dividends to individuals. We can keep spending that money on carbon intensive products and can consume the same mix of products. But because we can now spend the money on other things instead, we might find that it's worth buying the electric car instead of the gas car. People won't be forced into rapidly giving up their current patterns of life and work. It also avoids objections from conservatives about creating more governmental regulations, subsidies, complicated carbon credits, and interest groups. And like the very popular Social Security it's simple to explain. For concreteness, you would get $300 per month. That would equal the increase in prices you'd see at the gas pump, your electric bill, and in products. Change nothing and nothing in your life changes. Replace these higher priced carbon intensive products with better alternatives and you have extra money you can spend on other stuff.

kortilla 7y ago
>you would get $300 per month. That would equal the increase in prices you'd see at the gas pump, your electric bill, and in products. That doesn’t make sense though. What’s the incentive to switch to a lower carbon tax if you get all of the tax rebated to you at the end of the month? If you don’t get it all back, then it’s not equal to the price increases.
- lozenge 7y ago
  It would be $300 per month for everybody, so some people would end up less well off and others more.
- Pxtl 7y ago
  It's both carrot and stick. The average person breaks even. The green person comes out ahead. The wasteful person is in the red, and has a strong incentive to be greener. Now, a fun wrinkle is that on average, most of us are below average. Sorry, joke. What I mean is that the median output is below the average output. That's because it's not a linear curve, but a slope where the byper-wealthy have disproportionate weight. So because the median is below the average, it's also a progressive scheme in that the majority of participants will be at break-even or better.