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Is the comment of "she should have had a gun" really that insensitive? I say this as someone who grew up in bear country and knew people that had bear spray rea

Is the comment of "she should have had a gun" really that insensitive? I say this as someone who grew up in bear country and knew people that had bear spray readily accessible when outdoors. I'm sure some of them would've carried handguns if Canadian gun laws were less restrictive and not dictated by urbanite easterners out of fear.

kalenx 7y ago
I don't know in which bear country you grew up, but good luck killing a grizzly attacking you by surprise with most guns. Not that this is fundamentally impossible (her husband did it, after all) but not with a handgun. These guys are nothing like the black bears you may see in other parts of America...
- Macross8299 7y ago
  Grew up in Alberta, but spent a lot of time as a kid in the Kootenays in British Columbia, so no stranger to grizzlies. I've seen a few while hiking as well, very scary. I think the idea that a handgun cannot penetrate a Grizzly's skull is a myth anyways. Plenty of accounts of people shooting attacking grizzlies dead with a large calibre handgun. Bear-spray can work but what if it doesn't or what if there's wind working against you?
  - greedo 7y ago
    A large caliber handgun isn't easy to control and aim for most people. Imagine having an infant with you (even in a snugi/backpack). I'm a large man, and unless I had frequently trained with a 44 Mag or larger, I think the bear would win easily.
  - kalenx 7y ago
    Sure, it is not _literally_ impossible to kill a grizzly with a handgun. But, to quote yourself: > Handgun can work, but what if it doesn't? The point is not that it should be forbidden to bring guns when you hike in grizzly territory, but that by experience, many people who do are also the least knowledgeable about bears (and I say it that way to stay polite). Who cares if I let meat leftovers next to the campsite, I have a gun! Who cares if I go down a trail rangers explicitly told me not to because of the bear presence, I have a gun!
- dfrage 7y ago
  Killing the bear isn't the objective, stopping it from killing you is,the same goes for legitimate self-defense against humans. And it turns out that's frequently possible, even with human self-defense handgun calibers. You might discourage the bear with a wound, pain is a great motivator and works half the time with humans, but for bears disrupting a shoulder for example works well. Here's one study of 63 cases with 95% success rate: https://www.ammoland.com/2019/03/pistols-or-handguns-used-to-defend-against-bear-attack-95-effective-63-cases/ https://www.ammoland.com/2019/03/pistols-or-handguns-used-to... And in serious bear country, serious people carry serious long guns, a 12 gauge shotgun with slugs, or a centerfire rifle with a significant payload. And it's easier to shoot those well under stress.
  - kalenx 7y ago
    Yes, I can also google "can you kill grizzly bears with a handgun" and look at the first result. And I can also google "pepper spray bear success", which tells me that: > "Red pepper spray stopped bears’ undesirable behavior 92% of the time when used on brown bears, 90% for black bears, and 100% for polar bears. > Of all persons carrying sprays, 98% were uninjured by bears in close-range encounters. Which then raises the question: which deterrent is the most successful, gun or pepper spray? > And in serious bear country, serious people carry serious long guns, a 12 gauge shotgun with slugs, or a centerfire rifle with a significant payload. And it's easier to shoot those well under stress. Source? Sure, I guess it's "safer", but also way less practical in many situations. 99% of the time, just making noise and let the bear do its stuff without bothering him suffice to avoid any issue.
    - thomasz 7y ago
      She was ambushed from grizzly bear hiding six feet from her path. If that happens, you are dead, no matter what.
      - dfrage 7y ago
        Way inside Tueller Drill range (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tueller_Drill https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tueller_Drill), if the grizzly disabled her in the first blow her situation was indeed impossible. If not, and that's reported by some survivors, depending on what was hit and how a handgun was holstered, a handgun is a lot more ergonomic than a spray can, for example in pointing, it would have given her a better chance to strike a counter blow.
exhilaration 7y ago
She had a gun, it's in the article.
- Macross8299 7y ago
  Article doesn't say that, just that >The investigators’ reconstruction of the attack made it clear: even if, somehow, Valérie had had a loaded gun in her hand when the bear made his move, she wouldn’t have had a chance Really bad luck and a tragedy either way.

kalenx 7y ago

I don't know in which bear country you grew up, but good luck killing a grizzly attacking you by surprise with most guns. Not that this is fundamentally impossible (her husband did it, after all) but not with a handgun. These guys are nothing like the black bears you may see in other parts of America...

Macross8299 7y ago
Grew up in Alberta, but spent a lot of time as a kid in the Kootenays in British Columbia, so no stranger to grizzlies. I've seen a few while hiking as well, very scary. I think the idea that a handgun cannot penetrate a Grizzly's skull is a myth anyways. Plenty of accounts of people shooting attacking grizzlies dead with a large calibre handgun. Bear-spray can work but what if it doesn't or what if there's wind working against you?
- greedo 7y ago
  A large caliber handgun isn't easy to control and aim for most people. Imagine having an infant with you (even in a snugi/backpack). I'm a large man, and unless I had frequently trained with a 44 Mag or larger, I think the bear would win easily.
- kalenx 7y ago
  Sure, it is not _literally_ impossible to kill a grizzly with a handgun. But, to quote yourself: > Handgun can work, but what if it doesn't? The point is not that it should be forbidden to bring guns when you hike in grizzly territory, but that by experience, many people who do are also the least knowledgeable about bears (and I say it that way to stay polite). Who cares if I let meat leftovers next to the campsite, I have a gun! Who cares if I go down a trail rangers explicitly told me not to because of the bear presence, I have a gun!
dfrage 7y ago
Killing the bear isn't the objective, stopping it from killing you is,the same goes for legitimate self-defense against humans. And it turns out that's frequently possible, even with human self-defense handgun calibers. You might discourage the bear with a wound, pain is a great motivator and works half the time with humans, but for bears disrupting a shoulder for example works well. Here's one study of 63 cases with 95% success rate: https://www.ammoland.com/2019/03/pistols-or-handguns-used-to-defend-against-bear-attack-95-effective-63-cases/ https://www.ammoland.com/2019/03/pistols-or-handguns-used-to... And in serious bear country, serious people carry serious long guns, a 12 gauge shotgun with slugs, or a centerfire rifle with a significant payload. And it's easier to shoot those well under stress.
- kalenx 7y ago
  Yes, I can also google "can you kill grizzly bears with a handgun" and look at the first result. And I can also google "pepper spray bear success", which tells me that: > "Red pepper spray stopped bears’ undesirable behavior 92% of the time when used on brown bears, 90% for black bears, and 100% for polar bears. > Of all persons carrying sprays, 98% were uninjured by bears in close-range encounters. Which then raises the question: which deterrent is the most successful, gun or pepper spray? > And in serious bear country, serious people carry serious long guns, a 12 gauge shotgun with slugs, or a centerfire rifle with a significant payload. And it's easier to shoot those well under stress. Source? Sure, I guess it's "safer", but also way less practical in many situations. 99% of the time, just making noise and let the bear do its stuff without bothering him suffice to avoid any issue.
  - thomasz 7y ago
    She was ambushed from grizzly bear hiding six feet from her path. If that happens, you are dead, no matter what.
    - dfrage 7y ago
      Way inside Tueller Drill range (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tueller_Drill https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tueller_Drill), if the grizzly disabled her in the first blow her situation was indeed impossible. If not, and that's reported by some survivors, depending on what was hit and how a handgun was holstered, a handgun is a lot more ergonomic than a spray can, for example in pointing, it would have given her a better chance to strike a counter blow.

exhilaration 7y ago

She had a gun, it's in the article.

Macross8299 7y ago
Article doesn't say that, just that >The investigators’ reconstruction of the attack made it clear: even if, somehow, Valérie had had a loaded gun in her hand when the bear made his move, she wouldn’t have had a chance Really bad luck and a tragedy either way.