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This is exactly why I refuse to use an app for setting up hardware. Bose pushes really hard to get you to use an app for something that really doesn't require a

This is exactly why I refuse to use an app for setting up hardware. Bose pushes really hard to get you to use an app for something that really doesn't require an app.

Nextgrid 7y ago
This itself should be a red flag. If they heavily push something for a task that clearly has no reason to require that something then it’s probably fishy. Same scenario about PayPal offering that I receive receipts in Messenger or Deliveroo offering WhatsApp notifications.
- lstamour 7y ago
  If you want to use the Alexa/Google button on the QC 35 II, you’d need the app. Also to configure Bluetooth settings and update the headphones’ firmware. I use it daily to connect or disconnect named devices from the headphones to either improve connectivity (fewer devices connected, better bandwidth) or save battery (fewer devices connected, battery lasts a bit longer). I’m happy to report there’a a toggle in the app’s settings and that it now clearly indicates it sends the song data for diagnostic purposes if checked. (And yes, I disabled it.)
  - tjoff 7y ago
    I assume that is checked by default, so the instant you installed everything they can swoop up from any and all caches is transmitted. Then any random update they can forget to preserve that setting and redo it. It breaks my heart that it isn't even hyperbole. The future sucks. It seems the goal of most companies is to create a seemingly legitimate need for apps/permissions, no matter how convoluted, just so they can get access to data.
  - dgzl 7y ago
    I bought the QC35 just before the new edition came out. I never downloaded the app because "yeah fuck that..." and all I wanted was some nose-cancelling headphones. I'm still very much in the fence about voice recognition.
    - culturestate 7y ago
      The only reason I use the app is also the most useful: switching between paired devices. I have them paired to 4 different products (laptop, phone, tablet, and tv) so switching the active ones is much easier with a visual menu.
      - Sendotsh 7y ago
        I just use the switch on the side to change devices. It reads out the name of each device as you switch so it’s still clear what you’re changing to. I never installed the app purely because I’ve never had a reason. Then the spying stuff just reinforced my hatred of every single device these days needing one. I now specifically look for hardware devices that don’t need an app or cloud service account.
        culturestate 7y ago
        Unfortunately the switch only allows you to connect to one device at a time - if you want to use the dual source feature (which is a huge bonus for me when i’m at my desk) you gotta use the app to manage it.
        dgzl 7y ago
        You mean audio from from two sources at once? I didn't realize that was a feature. That's wild but I'm not going to install and use an app for just that feature. My headphones will sometimes automatically switch between sources when it recognizes I'm using another device. Like when I'm listening to music on my PC, if I start browsing my phone I'll start heading audio from it instead.
        deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
        estebank 7y ago
        I'm not so sure. Mine will automatically connect to both my MacBook (even when closed) and phone, usually selecting as primary the one I didn't care for (the second source has a perceptible delay) making me cycle over all the combinations. I've never installed the app not changed any configuration.
  - amlozano 7y ago
    Yeah, but if you download the app again today you will see a new prompt that forces you to agree to waive your right to class action and agree to arbitration over privacy policy violations. No option to cancel or opt out of course. Nice timing Bose.
  - Tsiklon 7y ago
    If you're not averse to downloading and running their update application on OS X or Windows instead - you can update your headphone's firmware much more quickly from their website, through that application (http://btu.bose.com/ http://btu.bose.com/ )
- a1369209993 7y ago
  > If they heavily push something for a task that clearly has no reason to require that something then it's probably fishy. See also ninety-plus percent of existing javascript, and literally the entire existence of intel management engine.
- code_duck 7y ago
  Instagram does this in several ways. You can't post 'stories' unless you give camera and microphone permission - even for existing videos and photos, when you have no desire to use their app to record. At first you could, now it's more restrictive. Same for adding location to photos. On iOS you can deny the permission and still enter location manually. On Android, you can't enter a location manually unless you give the app location permission. Totally not useful, either - location info is already embedded in the photo and I really don't need the help of GPS to determine my current location.
  - scarface74 7y ago
    On iOS, it is purposefully a separate permission to allow photo access and to allow the app to access the location metadata of the photo. There have been too many incidents of accidental location leakage.
  - Nextgrid 7y ago
    Instagram is owned by Facebook and is thus cancer so not surprising. It’s like installing malware and then being surprised it’s doing something malicious. On a similar note though, I just tried sending a tracking link for my Uber trip to my friend, and it tried to get contacts access permission (which I obviously denied) before giving me the link. I guess it preys on the fact that most people wouldn’t risk denying it thinking it won’t allow them to use the feature otherwise. Uber doesn’t seem to have anything to do with ads/stalking but it seems like nothing is safe in this day and age.
woadwarrior01 7y ago
I switched from a Bose QC35 to a Sony WH-1000XM3 about half a year ago, and the Sony app on iOS was egregiously requesting permission for location access, even while the app is in background. The cited reason for location access sounded rather flimsy and suspicious. Luckily, everything that can be done with the app can also be done with the physical buttons on the headphones. I guess their design philosophy is that if you want the convenience of using an app with the product that you’ve already paid a lot of money for, you’ll need to pay for it with your location info.
- hsivonen 7y ago
  Pre-GDPR Sony’s terms claimed a very wide scope of data collection (“content” of the device the headphones were connected to) without opt-out UI. It appears that the terms have been narrowed now to cover only the technical attributes of content, such as codec. Is there now a way to opt out of data collection?
- noisem4ker 7y ago
  What was the "cited reason"?
  - eightysixfour 7y ago
    It uses your movement and location to determine what noise-cancelling mode to put the headphones in. It is awful at picking though, not worth the privacy implications or battery life drain.
    - jvolkman 7y ago
      It's more likely just that BLE access in Android requires location permissions. https://stackoverflow.com/questions/33045581/location-needs-to-be-enabled-for-bluetooth-low-energy-scanning-on-android-6-0 https://stackoverflow.com/questions/33045581/location-needs-...
      - eightysixfour 7y ago
phreeza 7y ago
It is made worse by the fact that Bluetooth Low energy requires location access on Android.
- nullwasamistake 7y ago
  I noticed this a while ago. I can't see any reason besides Google finding a nice submarine for getting everybody to leave location services enabled constantly. As Bluetooth slowly becomes ubiquitous, eventually everyone will need location turned on 24/7. Google clearly wants this, but can't do anything overt about it without attracting bad press. So they attached location permissions to a new technology they know everybody will use eventually.
  - buckminster 7y ago
    This is a guess: if an app can do a Bluetooth scan it can then look up the device IDs online and figure out where you are. So it needs location permission. Perhaps Android should give apps anonymized Bluetooth IDs.
    - markmark 7y ago
      Bluetooth can also be used to track location with those beacon things shops us. I believe this is the reason they changed it (Bluetooth didn't used to need Location perm).
    - panpanna 7y ago
      That is a really silly excuse. Basically what they say is that this information can theoretically be calculated so we demand you just give it (and some more) to us.
      - tylerhou 7y ago
        I mean, it's not just a theory -- Tile uses BLE to track devices around a city: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tile_(company) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tile_(company) > The application can locate Tiles beyond the 100-foot Bluetooth range, using "crowd GPS": if an item with an attached Tile device is reported lost and comes within range of another user's Tile application, the nearby user's application will send the item's owner an anonymous update of that item's location.
mmjaa 7y ago
I build software systems which integrate a software front-end app with hardware, and I don't think I agree with the supposition that using an app to set up hardware is a negative. Its just that I think that an app/hardware integration ethic definitely has a place in the world. For example, hardware which works with Apple, without allowing third-party (not even Apple) involvement, is a battle being fought. Hardware vendors should be encouraged to ensure their hardware remains useful for generations, in my opinion. Apps always go stale while the hardware remains operational. Of course: none of this forgives the vendors using it to spy on its customers. Hardware like this, anyway imho at this market, is a platform battleground. In all honesty, we have more computer vendors battling it out now, than ever before. More than likely, putting "compatible with iOS" on the box of an expensive speaker means more shelf-shopping customers. Alas, Bose and Apple probably have, at least, MFI-level involvement...
- telchar 7y ago
  How do you feel about a 30 page TOS and privacy policy being necessary to use said app? Something of that length tells me that the company likely wants to get a lot of data from me. Reading it is hardly necessary with the way these are typically written to be as friendly to whatever the company wants to do as possible. This is why I have never used the Bluetooth features on my QC35s. They're mostly dumb headphones to me since I won't accept their user agreement. This seems counterproductive for the company, unless they simply don't care about user privacy and expect users to roll over.
  - mmjaa 7y ago
    This is why I never work in a technical capacity where I am being 'managed' by lawyers and other non-technically competent means of business org. I truly do believe, as do you, that the TOS and Warranty world is another desperate subject from where the execs/lawyers/owners of the company desire to eek every penny. There are many other realms where the TOS is simply: use the thing, have fun with it, if you want to tell us about yourself, press this button/fill in this card. For sure, consumers 'never read the TOS', because - hopefully - the device is now set up, everything works, it is time to rock .. For sure, tech can be used against the user. But it can also work for the user, too.
HenryBemis 7y ago
This is why I firewall my phone, so when Bose (that e.g. as the app to fine tune the frequencies etc) is installed, I immediately "block all" on mobile data and Wifi, so even if the app does want to 'speak' to someone, ET won't phone-home. On android devices one (at least on my Huawai)(to the degree that I trust the Settings) can regulate whether an app has connectivity. I block 90% of my apps completely (e.g. workout apps, or an offline Chess app)
- brokenmachine 7y ago
  > This is why I firewall my phone > my Huawai Hmmm.
e40 7y ago
The joke is the app does nothing, other than upgrade the firmware of the headphones. No settings to change or alter the behavior of buttons, initial volume, etc. Nada. Nothing.
- h4waii 7y ago
  Er. The app allows to you adjust the "aggressiveness" of the noise cancellation or turn it off completely.
- phreeza 7y ago
  It enables a second, lower level, noise cancellation mode, that works well in windy environments.

This is exactly why I refuse to use an app for setting up hardware. Bose pushes really hard to get you to use an app for something that really doesn't require an app.

Nextgrid 7y ago

This itself should be a red flag. If they heavily push something for a task that clearly has no reason to require that something then it’s probably fishy. Same scenario about PayPal offering that I receive receipts in Messenger or Deliveroo offering WhatsApp notifications.

lstamour 7y ago
If you want to use the Alexa/Google button on the QC 35 II, you’d need the app. Also to configure Bluetooth settings and update the headphones’ firmware. I use it daily to connect or disconnect named devices from the headphones to either improve connectivity (fewer devices connected, better bandwidth) or save battery (fewer devices connected, battery lasts a bit longer). I’m happy to report there’a a toggle in the app’s settings and that it now clearly indicates it sends the song data for diagnostic purposes if checked. (And yes, I disabled it.)
- tjoff 7y ago
  I assume that is checked by default, so the instant you installed everything they can swoop up from any and all caches is transmitted. Then any random update they can forget to preserve that setting and redo it. It breaks my heart that it isn't even hyperbole. The future sucks. It seems the goal of most companies is to create a seemingly legitimate need for apps/permissions, no matter how convoluted, just so they can get access to data.
- dgzl 7y ago
  I bought the QC35 just before the new edition came out. I never downloaded the app because "yeah fuck that..." and all I wanted was some nose-cancelling headphones. I'm still very much in the fence about voice recognition.
  - culturestate 7y ago
    The only reason I use the app is also the most useful: switching between paired devices. I have them paired to 4 different products (laptop, phone, tablet, and tv) so switching the active ones is much easier with a visual menu.
    - Sendotsh 7y ago
      I just use the switch on the side to change devices. It reads out the name of each device as you switch so it’s still clear what you’re changing to. I never installed the app purely because I’ve never had a reason. Then the spying stuff just reinforced my hatred of every single device these days needing one. I now specifically look for hardware devices that don’t need an app or cloud service account.
      - culturestate 7y ago
        Unfortunately the switch only allows you to connect to one device at a time - if you want to use the dual source feature (which is a huge bonus for me when i’m at my desk) you gotta use the app to manage it.
        dgzl 7y ago
        You mean audio from from two sources at once? I didn't realize that was a feature. That's wild but I'm not going to install and use an app for just that feature. My headphones will sometimes automatically switch between sources when it recognizes I'm using another device. Like when I'm listening to music on my PC, if I start browsing my phone I'll start heading audio from it instead.
        deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
        estebank 7y ago
        I'm not so sure. Mine will automatically connect to both my MacBook (even when closed) and phone, usually selecting as primary the one I didn't care for (the second source has a perceptible delay) making me cycle over all the combinations. I've never installed the app not changed any configuration.
- amlozano 7y ago
  Yeah, but if you download the app again today you will see a new prompt that forces you to agree to waive your right to class action and agree to arbitration over privacy policy violations. No option to cancel or opt out of course. Nice timing Bose.
- Tsiklon 7y ago
  If you're not averse to downloading and running their update application on OS X or Windows instead - you can update your headphone's firmware much more quickly from their website, through that application (http://btu.bose.com/ http://btu.bose.com/ )
a1369209993 7y ago
> If they heavily push something for a task that clearly has no reason to require that something then it's probably fishy. See also ninety-plus percent of existing javascript, and literally the entire existence of intel management engine.
code_duck 7y ago
Instagram does this in several ways. You can't post 'stories' unless you give camera and microphone permission - even for existing videos and photos, when you have no desire to use their app to record. At first you could, now it's more restrictive. Same for adding location to photos. On iOS you can deny the permission and still enter location manually. On Android, you can't enter a location manually unless you give the app location permission. Totally not useful, either - location info is already embedded in the photo and I really don't need the help of GPS to determine my current location.
- scarface74 7y ago
  On iOS, it is purposefully a separate permission to allow photo access and to allow the app to access the location metadata of the photo. There have been too many incidents of accidental location leakage.
- Nextgrid 7y ago
  Instagram is owned by Facebook and is thus cancer so not surprising. It’s like installing malware and then being surprised it’s doing something malicious. On a similar note though, I just tried sending a tracking link for my Uber trip to my friend, and it tried to get contacts access permission (which I obviously denied) before giving me the link. I guess it preys on the fact that most people wouldn’t risk denying it thinking it won’t allow them to use the feature otherwise. Uber doesn’t seem to have anything to do with ads/stalking but it seems like nothing is safe in this day and age.

woadwarrior01 7y ago

I switched from a Bose QC35 to a Sony WH-1000XM3 about half a year ago, and the Sony app on iOS was egregiously requesting permission for location access, even while the app is in background. The cited reason for location access sounded rather flimsy and suspicious. Luckily, everything that can be done with the app can also be done with the physical buttons on the headphones. I guess their design philosophy is that if you want the convenience of using an app with the product that you’ve already paid a lot of money for, you’ll need to pay for it with your location info.

hsivonen 7y ago
Pre-GDPR Sony’s terms claimed a very wide scope of data collection (“content” of the device the headphones were connected to) without opt-out UI. It appears that the terms have been narrowed now to cover only the technical attributes of content, such as codec. Is there now a way to opt out of data collection?
noisem4ker 7y ago
What was the "cited reason"?
- eightysixfour 7y ago
  It uses your movement and location to determine what noise-cancelling mode to put the headphones in. It is awful at picking though, not worth the privacy implications or battery life drain.
  - jvolkman 7y ago
    It's more likely just that BLE access in Android requires location permissions. https://stackoverflow.com/questions/33045581/location-needs-to-be-enabled-for-bluetooth-low-energy-scanning-on-android-6-0 https://stackoverflow.com/questions/33045581/location-needs-...
    - eightysixfour 7y ago

phreeza 7y ago

It is made worse by the fact that Bluetooth Low energy requires location access on Android.

nullwasamistake 7y ago
I noticed this a while ago. I can't see any reason besides Google finding a nice submarine for getting everybody to leave location services enabled constantly. As Bluetooth slowly becomes ubiquitous, eventually everyone will need location turned on 24/7. Google clearly wants this, but can't do anything overt about it without attracting bad press. So they attached location permissions to a new technology they know everybody will use eventually.
- buckminster 7y ago
  This is a guess: if an app can do a Bluetooth scan it can then look up the device IDs online and figure out where you are. So it needs location permission. Perhaps Android should give apps anonymized Bluetooth IDs.
  - markmark 7y ago
    Bluetooth can also be used to track location with those beacon things shops us. I believe this is the reason they changed it (Bluetooth didn't used to need Location perm).
  - panpanna 7y ago
    That is a really silly excuse. Basically what they say is that this information can theoretically be calculated so we demand you just give it (and some more) to us.
    - tylerhou 7y ago
      I mean, it's not just a theory -- Tile uses BLE to track devices around a city: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tile_(company) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tile_(company) > The application can locate Tiles beyond the 100-foot Bluetooth range, using "crowd GPS": if an item with an attached Tile device is reported lost and comes within range of another user's Tile application, the nearby user's application will send the item's owner an anonymous update of that item's location.

mmjaa 7y ago

I build software systems which integrate a software front-end app with hardware, and I don't think I agree with the supposition that using an app to set up hardware is a negative. Its just that I think that an app/hardware integration ethic definitely has a place in the world. For example, hardware which works with Apple, without allowing third-party (not even Apple) involvement, is a battle being fought. Hardware vendors should be encouraged to ensure their hardware remains useful for generations, in my opinion. Apps always go stale while the hardware remains operational. Of course: none of this forgives the vendors using it to spy on its customers. Hardware like this, anyway imho at this market, is a platform battleground. In all honesty, we have more computer vendors battling it out now, than ever before. More than likely, putting "compatible with iOS" on the box of an expensive speaker means more shelf-shopping customers. Alas, Bose and Apple probably have, at least, MFI-level involvement...

telchar 7y ago
How do you feel about a 30 page TOS and privacy policy being necessary to use said app? Something of that length tells me that the company likely wants to get a lot of data from me. Reading it is hardly necessary with the way these are typically written to be as friendly to whatever the company wants to do as possible. This is why I have never used the Bluetooth features on my QC35s. They're mostly dumb headphones to me since I won't accept their user agreement. This seems counterproductive for the company, unless they simply don't care about user privacy and expect users to roll over.
- mmjaa 7y ago
  This is why I never work in a technical capacity where I am being 'managed' by lawyers and other non-technically competent means of business org. I truly do believe, as do you, that the TOS and Warranty world is another desperate subject from where the execs/lawyers/owners of the company desire to eek every penny. There are many other realms where the TOS is simply: use the thing, have fun with it, if you want to tell us about yourself, press this button/fill in this card. For sure, consumers 'never read the TOS', because - hopefully - the device is now set up, everything works, it is time to rock .. For sure, tech can be used against the user. But it can also work for the user, too.

HenryBemis 7y ago

This is why I firewall my phone, so when Bose (that e.g. as the app to fine tune the frequencies etc) is installed, I immediately "block all" on mobile data and Wifi, so even if the app does want to 'speak' to someone, ET won't phone-home. On android devices one (at least on my Huawai)(to the degree that I trust the Settings) can regulate whether an app has connectivity. I block 90% of my apps completely (e.g. workout apps, or an offline Chess app)

brokenmachine 7y ago
> This is why I firewall my phone > my Huawai Hmmm.

e40 7y ago

The joke is the app does nothing, other than upgrade the firmware of the headphones. No settings to change or alter the behavior of buttons, initial volume, etc. Nada. Nothing.

h4waii 7y ago
Er. The app allows to you adjust the "aggressiveness" of the noise cancellation or turn it off completely.
phreeza 7y ago
It enables a second, lower level, noise cancellation mode, that works well in windy environments.