5 ms·

Doing something, I mean really doing something, requires changing our culture. Future generations, if there are ones, will look back at this time and see that

by bni 7y ago

Doing something, I mean really doing something, requires changing our culture. Future generations, if there are ones, will look back at this time and see that we have an oil burning culture. Everything we eat, where we live, fossil fuels have been used to produce and maintain it. If it only was cars that was the problem we would easily solve it. To make a real change a Total War economy would have to be implemented, with the sole function of combating climate change. No-one wants to even start suggesting that because there would be so much inconvenience and angry people. Since the effects are only a minor inconvenience yet, for people in the developed world, its much easier to do nothing. Some deny there is a problem, others acknowledge it, but put it on the back of their minds mostly (I'm in this category). The effect is the same. Politicians follow the path of least resistance, that is how they are elected.

goodcanadian 7y ago
Doing something, I mean really doing something, requires changing our culture. I'm not sure it's so dire as that. Taking the US as an example (numbers from https://www.epa.gov/ghgemissions/sources-greenhouse-gas-emissions https://www.epa.gov/ghgemissions/sources-greenhouse-gas-emis...), the largest source of greenhouse gases is transportation at 29%. A real push to switch to electric cars could have a significant impact without significantly changing the way people live their lives. If presented correctly, people could see it as a net benefit: no longer going out of your way to find a gas/petrol station, you just plug in at home and have a full "tank" every morning. The next largest source is electricity production (27%). Again, a major push towards green energy would benefit from strong leadership, but it wouldn't impact our culture very much. It makes little difference whether the electricity comes from a coal power station or solar power combined with grid storage as long as my TV turns on. The next chunk is industry (22%). Most of this is actually for power generation again, so see electricity generation above. Only now do we get to residential and commercial uses at 12% (mostly heating). Only here are we starting to impact the little people in a big way, and I would argue that even then, changing out my furnace for a heat pump is not going to have a big impact on how I live my life.
- konspence 7y ago
  I agree with most of this post, while I feel it may be hand-waving away from of the details. For example, >changing out my furnace for a heat pump is not going to have a big impact on how I live my life A heat pump is a significant investment which would put the majority of American families into financial turmoil. There needs to be much larger government incentive for these units, for reducing this 12% of emissions to be viable.
  - goodcanadian 7y ago
    Indeed, the heat pump is a significant investment. My point, however, is that you can start addressing 75-80% of CO2 emissions before you get to that point. Edit: all of these things are expensive and require strong leadership, but strong leadership is what the original comment was talking about.
  - _ph_ 7y ago
    They are more expensive to buy and set up but should save money in operating costs. So just offering special loans for heat pumps (low interest) could give them a huge boost.
- jazzyjackson 7y ago
  A real push to switch to electric cars already pushes certain types of people to drive bigger trucks and pollute more brazenly, e.g. "Rolling Coal" which I've witnessed first hand in my very liberal college town. Culture is very complicated and you will always get push back. Furthermore, switching out the 200+ million cars in USA to electric vehicles is not going to help emissions because of the carbon footprint of newly manufactured vehicles. The idea that providing each citizen with a personal 1000 pound supply of lithium ion will save the climate is bananas. I agree that swapping out coal for wind and solar could be done without much change to culture but solar panel production isn't carbon free either, what we really need to do is use way, way less electricity per person, and its almost impossible to convince people to sacrifice for their future. As far as my suggestions: cash-for-clunkers program except with lifetime public transit passes instead of cash. Melt down the ICE vehicles for their aluminum and build lots of trains. This would be justice for the 1920s-40s when all of our electric trains were melted down to build tanks and bombs. For the haters that say trains don't work in USA, I refer you to the 1913 Illinois Interurban railway map [1] where you could pay a nickel to hop on a 20-60mph trolley to the next town over. Use those same train lines to move mail and food from the farmland it passes through. Stop eating imported food, stop sending food roundtrip to China for processing before shipping it back to the store [2] Stop building houses that need to be heated and cooled artificially year round because they have no notion of solar gain or heat mass. I could go on...but business as usual will keep destroying the environment that keeps us alive. [1] https://legacy.lib.utexas.edu/maps/historical/txu-oclc-6445490-electric_railway-champaign-1913.jpg https://legacy.lib.utexas.edu/maps/historical/txu-oclc-64454... [2] https://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/26/business/worldbusiness/26food.html https://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/26/business/worldbusiness/26...
mathh 7y ago
>Doing something, I mean really doing something, requires changing our culture. It could have already started by respecting the Paris agreement. In this regard, the US decision to go out of the agreement, to protect the american way of life etc, can be considered as belonging to the same category than crimes against humanity. How can US people have tolerated this desision ? I mean, from my place, I didn't see a lot of protest. Such a shame.

by bni 7y ago

goodcanadian 7y ago

Doing something, I mean really doing something, requires changing our culture. I'm not sure it's so dire as that. Taking the US as an example (numbers from https://www.epa.gov/ghgemissions/sources-greenhouse-gas-emissions https://www.epa.gov/ghgemissions/sources-greenhouse-gas-emis...), the largest source of greenhouse gases is transportation at 29%. A real push to switch to electric cars could have a significant impact without significantly changing the way people live their lives. If presented correctly, people could see it as a net benefit: no longer going out of your way to find a gas/petrol station, you just plug in at home and have a full "tank" every morning. The next largest source is electricity production (27%). Again, a major push towards green energy would benefit from strong leadership, but it wouldn't impact our culture very much. It makes little difference whether the electricity comes from a coal power station or solar power combined with grid storage as long as my TV turns on. The next chunk is industry (22%). Most of this is actually for power generation again, so see electricity generation above. Only now do we get to residential and commercial uses at 12% (mostly heating). Only here are we starting to impact the little people in a big way, and I would argue that even then, changing out my furnace for a heat pump is not going to have a big impact on how I live my life.

konspence 7y ago
I agree with most of this post, while I feel it may be hand-waving away from of the details. For example, >changing out my furnace for a heat pump is not going to have a big impact on how I live my life A heat pump is a significant investment which would put the majority of American families into financial turmoil. There needs to be much larger government incentive for these units, for reducing this 12% of emissions to be viable.
- goodcanadian 7y ago
  Indeed, the heat pump is a significant investment. My point, however, is that you can start addressing 75-80% of CO2 emissions before you get to that point. Edit: all of these things are expensive and require strong leadership, but strong leadership is what the original comment was talking about.
- _ph_ 7y ago
  They are more expensive to buy and set up but should save money in operating costs. So just offering special loans for heat pumps (low interest) could give them a huge boost.
jazzyjackson 7y ago
A real push to switch to electric cars already pushes certain types of people to drive bigger trucks and pollute more brazenly, e.g. "Rolling Coal" which I've witnessed first hand in my very liberal college town. Culture is very complicated and you will always get push back. Furthermore, switching out the 200+ million cars in USA to electric vehicles is not going to help emissions because of the carbon footprint of newly manufactured vehicles. The idea that providing each citizen with a personal 1000 pound supply of lithium ion will save the climate is bananas. I agree that swapping out coal for wind and solar could be done without much change to culture but solar panel production isn't carbon free either, what we really need to do is use way, way less electricity per person, and its almost impossible to convince people to sacrifice for their future. As far as my suggestions: cash-for-clunkers program except with lifetime public transit passes instead of cash. Melt down the ICE vehicles for their aluminum and build lots of trains. This would be justice for the 1920s-40s when all of our electric trains were melted down to build tanks and bombs. For the haters that say trains don't work in USA, I refer you to the 1913 Illinois Interurban railway map [1] where you could pay a nickel to hop on a 20-60mph trolley to the next town over. Use those same train lines to move mail and food from the farmland it passes through. Stop eating imported food, stop sending food roundtrip to China for processing before shipping it back to the store [2] Stop building houses that need to be heated and cooled artificially year round because they have no notion of solar gain or heat mass. I could go on...but business as usual will keep destroying the environment that keeps us alive. [1] https://legacy.lib.utexas.edu/maps/historical/txu-oclc-6445490-electric_railway-champaign-1913.jpg https://legacy.lib.utexas.edu/maps/historical/txu-oclc-64454... [2] https://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/26/business/worldbusiness/26food.html https://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/26/business/worldbusiness/26...

mathh 7y ago

>Doing something, I mean really doing something, requires changing our culture. It could have already started by respecting the Paris agreement. In this regard, the US decision to go out of the agreement, to protect the american way of life etc, can be considered as belonging to the same category than crimes against humanity. How can US people have tolerated this desision ? I mean, from my place, I didn't see a lot of protest. Such a shame.