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Western capitalism seems to be the one thing that has successfully incentivized people to have less kids, later in life. It's not always glamorous, but it's pr

by tcbawo 7y ago

Western capitalism seems to be the one thing that has successfully incentivized people to have less kids, later in life. It's not always glamorous, but it's probably better than most alternatives.

newnewpdro 7y ago
That's great and all but there's over a billion people in India alone and a huge fraction of them are still living in poverty, effectively contributing very little currently to factors like co2 emissions. It won't stay that way for much longer. Quality of life tends to increase, and correspondingly impact increases. We already have far too many people if you consider the quality of life is destined to normalize at the "western" end of the spectrum.
- dev_dull 7y ago
  > Quality of life tends to increase, and correspondingly impact increases I’m not sure I agree that this is true because it ignores all of the efficiency gains (especially in electronics but in other things as well) we’ve seen the last 50+ years. Not to mention things like renewable solar which is not readily and cheaply available.
  - lotsofpulp 7y ago
    The biggest portion of environmental damage is due to transportation, and transportation is due to single family homes causing a need for sprawl. People in India live on top of each other, and I’m sure they’d all like some space if they can afford it. They’d also like to take international vacations.
  - tty2300 7y ago
    Our electronics run on next to no power but then we throw them out constantly and buy new onea because some marketing department said we should.
  - goatinaboat 7y ago
    Not to mention things like renewable solar which is not readily and cheaply available The energy input of solar (sourcing and extracting the rare earths, the manufacturing process, installing and maintaining them in situ) is non-zero, and solar panels have a finite lifespan. These variables are often not well understood, nor factored into discussions of solar as "renewable". I don't believe there exists an end-to-end solar operation, i.e. the entire supply chain solar powered by its own products. So solar is only cheap because its inputs are cheap, and they are cheap because they are powered by cheap oil.
roenxi 7y ago
Not the one thing - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-child_policy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-child_policy
- ahmedalsudani 7y ago
  That started almost 50 years ago. Now China wants its citizens to have more babies, but it has not been able to incentivize them.
twic 7y ago
What we really need is cap-and-trade for offspring. Everyone gets one each (so two to a couple), and if you need more, you can buy permits from someone who doesn't, at market price. That adds an economic incentive to have fewer children!
- your-nanny 7y ago
  what a disgusting and disturbing idea.
  - twic 7y ago
    Well if you liked that, perhaps you might be interested in the logical next step: http://www.gutenberg.org/files/1080/1080-h/1080-h.htm http://www.gutenberg.org/files/1080/1080-h/1080-h.htm
- red75prime 7y ago
  Western capitalism doesn't need such policies. Birth rate in developed countries is below replacement-level fertility. http://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/total-fertility-rate/ http://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/total-fertility-r...
intuitionist 7y ago
The thing that seems to decrease birth rate isn’t capitalism, it’s education of girls and women. These things often go together along a “modernist” axis but they don’t have to.

by tcbawo 7y ago

Western capitalism seems to be the one thing that has successfully incentivized people to have less kids, later in life. It's not always glamorous, but it's probably better than most alternatives.

newnewpdro 7y ago

That's great and all but there's over a billion people in India alone and a huge fraction of them are still living in poverty, effectively contributing very little currently to factors like co2 emissions. It won't stay that way for much longer. Quality of life tends to increase, and correspondingly impact increases. We already have far too many people if you consider the quality of life is destined to normalize at the "western" end of the spectrum.

dev_dull 7y ago
> Quality of life tends to increase, and correspondingly impact increases I’m not sure I agree that this is true because it ignores all of the efficiency gains (especially in electronics but in other things as well) we’ve seen the last 50+ years. Not to mention things like renewable solar which is not readily and cheaply available.
- lotsofpulp 7y ago
  The biggest portion of environmental damage is due to transportation, and transportation is due to single family homes causing a need for sprawl. People in India live on top of each other, and I’m sure they’d all like some space if they can afford it. They’d also like to take international vacations.
- tty2300 7y ago
  Our electronics run on next to no power but then we throw them out constantly and buy new onea because some marketing department said we should.
- goatinaboat 7y ago
  Not to mention things like renewable solar which is not readily and cheaply available The energy input of solar (sourcing and extracting the rare earths, the manufacturing process, installing and maintaining them in situ) is non-zero, and solar panels have a finite lifespan. These variables are often not well understood, nor factored into discussions of solar as "renewable". I don't believe there exists an end-to-end solar operation, i.e. the entire supply chain solar powered by its own products. So solar is only cheap because its inputs are cheap, and they are cheap because they are powered by cheap oil.

roenxi 7y ago

Not the one thing - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-child_policy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-child_policy

ahmedalsudani 7y ago
That started almost 50 years ago. Now China wants its citizens to have more babies, but it has not been able to incentivize them.

twic 7y ago

What we really need is cap-and-trade for offspring. Everyone gets one each (so two to a couple), and if you need more, you can buy permits from someone who doesn't, at market price. That adds an economic incentive to have fewer children!

your-nanny 7y ago
what a disgusting and disturbing idea.
- twic 7y ago
  Well if you liked that, perhaps you might be interested in the logical next step: http://www.gutenberg.org/files/1080/1080-h/1080-h.htm http://www.gutenberg.org/files/1080/1080-h/1080-h.htm
red75prime 7y ago
Western capitalism doesn't need such policies. Birth rate in developed countries is below replacement-level fertility. http://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/total-fertility-rate/ http://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/total-fertility-r...

intuitionist 7y ago

The thing that seems to decrease birth rate isn’t capitalism, it’s education of girls and women. These things often go together along a “modernist” axis but they don’t have to.