5 ms·

For starters, he did get smarter in ten weeks. That's a fifth of a year. Kids get materially cleverer and more intelligent as they grow. I've seen this in kid

For starters, he did get smarter in ten weeks. That's a fifth of a year. Kids get materially cleverer and more intelligent as they grow. I've seen this in kids taking math contests and standardized tests without any special preparation. FWIW I think test prep can help -- if you don't know the material. You could have had him do that test prep for free, without paying a tutor. Or gotten a cheaper tutor, a college undergrad, instead of some fancypants professor.

scarface74 7y ago
He didn’t get that much smarter to improve his test scores by as much as he did. I know plenty of people who took the test more than once, got help by going to “SAT prep” classes before school etc. and didn’t get any better. The entire point is that money and connections opens doors. I didn’t grow up poor but I did grow up in a relatively poor city. I saw the lack of opportunity when I was growing up. When I go back home now, it’s even worse. All of the “smart kids” who just so happened to be the teachers, doctors, lawyers kids moved away.
- SamReidHughes 7y ago
  Tell that to the parents who tried to bribe their kids' way into college. The fact is, SAT prep costs $0. You'll notice that kids growing up in trailer parks magically don't have these hurdles when their parents are recent immigrants. Edit: To add some clarity about what I am saying: Preparation can certainly improve test scores. For example, I did poorly on the SAT verbal because I didn't even have the vocabulary for many questions. I was even, I dare say, unpracticed at reading. Actually preparing would have improved my score. Also, some "professor" doesn't have access to special mind altering techniques that other tutors don't have. Teaching and test prep is not rocket science.
  - scarface74 7y ago
    Isn’t that kind of the point of both the article and what I was saying? Reports are that many of the kids didn’t know that their parents were bribing colleges. They actually thought that they got into prestigious colleges because of their own “capabilities”. And general intergenerational income mobility isn’t that high. Also, statistically (and no fault of their own), English as a second language students don’t do as well as native born speakers (https://www.npr.org/sections/ed/2017/02/23/512451228/5-million-english-language-learners-a-vast-pool-of-talent-at-risk https://www.npr.org/sections/ed/2017/02/23/512451228/5-milli...) so I fail to see the relevant of bringing up recent immigrants.
    - SamReidHughes 7y ago
      I edited my post right as you responded. Immigrants are relevant because they're often poor but because of language and happenstance, for very specific reasons, not because they're stupid or unreliable. Their kids have a lot more upward mobility and they outperform academically.
      - scarface74 7y ago
        Not according to the citation I posted.
        SamReidHughes 7y ago
        That doesn't have a breakdown by income, so it's impossible for your link to address anything I've said.
        scarface74 7y ago
        So do you have a better citation of immigrants doing better or is it just the meme of “the model hardworking immigrant”?
        SamReidHughes 7y ago
        I said poor immigrants' kids doing better than other poor people's kids.
        scarface74 7y ago
        Citation?
  - akhilcacharya 7y ago
    I’m probably a failure in the eyes of people like you. I’m 23. What should I do now instead? I only got a 1500/1600 on M+R. Didn’t get into any elite schools. This is a serious question. I didn’t score well on the SAT and didn’t have prep tutors despite having very intelligent parents and lots of prep.
    - scarface74 7y ago
      I went to a no name state college in the same city I grew up in - you know the one I said was the one of the poorest cities in the US? Why? They gave me a full ride scholarship including room and board even though I stayed at home. I really just wanted the piece of paper to get pass the HR filters of “needs a degree in CS”. My first job out of college based on an internship I had the year before was as a computer operator. I took it so I could move to the “big city” where I still live and figure out my next steps.
      - akhilcacharya 7y ago
        Well, I didn't get into my school's full ride scholarship either....
        scarface74 7y ago
        Well, right after I graduated, any state resident with a 3.0 GPA and 1000 SAT score (out of 1600) could get their tuition paid for any public college in our state thanks to the lottery funding. The standards are slightly higher now and it only covers 90% of tuition I believe. So there is that....
        akhilcacharya 7y ago
        Yeah, that's definitely a difference. I still feel the sting of not performing well on my SAT to this day, and it's been 5 years! It's like a mark against my humanity.
    - DuskStar 7y ago

scarface74 7y ago

He didn’t get that much smarter to improve his test scores by as much as he did. I know plenty of people who took the test more than once, got help by going to “SAT prep” classes before school etc. and didn’t get any better. The entire point is that money and connections opens doors. I didn’t grow up poor but I did grow up in a relatively poor city. I saw the lack of opportunity when I was growing up. When I go back home now, it’s even worse. All of the “smart kids” who just so happened to be the teachers, doctors, lawyers kids moved away.

SamReidHughes 7y ago
Tell that to the parents who tried to bribe their kids' way into college. The fact is, SAT prep costs $0. You'll notice that kids growing up in trailer parks magically don't have these hurdles when their parents are recent immigrants. Edit: To add some clarity about what I am saying: Preparation can certainly improve test scores. For example, I did poorly on the SAT verbal because I didn't even have the vocabulary for many questions. I was even, I dare say, unpracticed at reading. Actually preparing would have improved my score. Also, some "professor" doesn't have access to special mind altering techniques that other tutors don't have. Teaching and test prep is not rocket science.
- scarface74 7y ago
  Isn’t that kind of the point of both the article and what I was saying? Reports are that many of the kids didn’t know that their parents were bribing colleges. They actually thought that they got into prestigious colleges because of their own “capabilities”. And general intergenerational income mobility isn’t that high. Also, statistically (and no fault of their own), English as a second language students don’t do as well as native born speakers (https://www.npr.org/sections/ed/2017/02/23/512451228/5-million-english-language-learners-a-vast-pool-of-talent-at-risk https://www.npr.org/sections/ed/2017/02/23/512451228/5-milli...) so I fail to see the relevant of bringing up recent immigrants.
  - SamReidHughes 7y ago
    I edited my post right as you responded. Immigrants are relevant because they're often poor but because of language and happenstance, for very specific reasons, not because they're stupid or unreliable. Their kids have a lot more upward mobility and they outperform academically.
    - scarface74 7y ago
      Not according to the citation I posted.
      - SamReidHughes 7y ago
        That doesn't have a breakdown by income, so it's impossible for your link to address anything I've said.
        scarface74 7y ago
        So do you have a better citation of immigrants doing better or is it just the meme of “the model hardworking immigrant”?
        SamReidHughes 7y ago
        I said poor immigrants' kids doing better than other poor people's kids.
        scarface74 7y ago
        Citation?
- akhilcacharya 7y ago
  I’m probably a failure in the eyes of people like you. I’m 23. What should I do now instead? I only got a 1500/1600 on M+R. Didn’t get into any elite schools. This is a serious question. I didn’t score well on the SAT and didn’t have prep tutors despite having very intelligent parents and lots of prep.
  - scarface74 7y ago
    I went to a no name state college in the same city I grew up in - you know the one I said was the one of the poorest cities in the US? Why? They gave me a full ride scholarship including room and board even though I stayed at home. I really just wanted the piece of paper to get pass the HR filters of “needs a degree in CS”. My first job out of college based on an internship I had the year before was as a computer operator. I took it so I could move to the “big city” where I still live and figure out my next steps.
    - akhilcacharya 7y ago
      Well, I didn't get into my school's full ride scholarship either....
      - scarface74 7y ago
        Well, right after I graduated, any state resident with a 3.0 GPA and 1000 SAT score (out of 1600) could get their tuition paid for any public college in our state thanks to the lottery funding. The standards are slightly higher now and it only covers 90% of tuition I believe. So there is that....
        akhilcacharya 7y ago
        Yeah, that's definitely a difference. I still feel the sting of not performing well on my SAT to this day, and it's been 5 years! It's like a mark against my humanity.
  - DuskStar 7y ago