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> The problem is any regulation is that it increases the startup costs for smaller businesses. Why should this be the one thing we optimise for?

Mirioron 7y ago
Because if you do poorly on the small business front, then they can't grow into bigger businesses. How many EU tech companies do you know of compared to American ones?
- franciscop 7y ago
  Many, but I'm european so it probably doesn't count (; If you make it harder for companies for protecting people it's still a win. I recently visited SF, "the center of innovation" for the startup world. I saw 2 people defecating on the street in 2 weeks, countless peeing and had to jump over homeless at some points to walk the street. If that's the cost for startup and innovation, please don't bring it to EU.
  - briandear 7y ago
    Walk the streets any night in Paris and you’ll see people peeing on walls and in the daytime, herds of gypsy pickpockets. Homeless sleep next to the Seine in tents and doorways feature sleeping people on almost any block the police choose to ignore. Go to the Paris suburbs and you’ll see Stalinist apartment blocks filled to the brim with unemployed people, mostly Maghreb, who can’t get jobs because their last name isn’t “French” enough. Go to Avignon and you’ll see a historic city center with more empty storefronts than actual businesses. You have unemployment as high as 30% in those areas. Down in Marseille, especially near Bougainville, you have drug gangs armed with AK-47s. Ten minutes with the Gendarmes in Marseille and you’ll think you’re in a rough neighborhood in Tunisia rather than a highly developed Western European country. Judging American innovation by visiting the Tenderloin is like judging French food by eating at a kebab shop. The homeless issues aren’t because of Silicon Valley, it’s because of a certain breed of politics endemic to California, namely NIMBY policies, regulation and taxation that is the very opposite of innovation. The San Francisco Bay Area is a center of innovation despite these policies, not because of them.
  - Mirioron 7y ago
    I'm European too and I really wish people from Europe didn't have an attitude like yours. Some parts of Europe are incredibly poor, but of course we have a much smaller homeless problem, because if you're truly without shelter then you simply die in winter.
    - franciscop 7y ago
      I'm from Spain and there are homeless people in Spain, just a lot less than in the US. But it's not because they die in winter, it is because you don't become automatically poor if you lose your job, or if you need an operation, or if you study at university. It's safety nets that avoid people losing everything and becoming homeless.
manigandham 7y ago
Where do you think jobs come from?
- hrktb 7y ago
  Businesses that don’t have security issues when handling private data, obviously. I agree with the GP, in that ease of starting companies should not be the primary goal, setting security and privacy on the back seat. It shouldn’t harder than it needs to, not easier at any cost.
  - manigandham 7y ago
    > It shouldn’t harder than it needs to This is what's happening though.
Silhouette 7y ago
No-one seems to have suggested that it’s the one thing we should optimise for, but it is important. Small businesses are the foundation of economies, and every extra overhead ultimately damages those economies and so needs some justification that is of greater value, financial or otherwise. One year on, it’s still not clear to me that GDPR has achieved that greater good, and I write that as someone who is a very strong believer in stronger privacy laws in principle.

Mirioron 7y ago

Because if you do poorly on the small business front, then they can't grow into bigger businesses. How many EU tech companies do you know of compared to American ones?

franciscop 7y ago
Many, but I'm european so it probably doesn't count (; If you make it harder for companies for protecting people it's still a win. I recently visited SF, "the center of innovation" for the startup world. I saw 2 people defecating on the street in 2 weeks, countless peeing and had to jump over homeless at some points to walk the street. If that's the cost for startup and innovation, please don't bring it to EU.
- briandear 7y ago
  Walk the streets any night in Paris and you’ll see people peeing on walls and in the daytime, herds of gypsy pickpockets. Homeless sleep next to the Seine in tents and doorways feature sleeping people on almost any block the police choose to ignore. Go to the Paris suburbs and you’ll see Stalinist apartment blocks filled to the brim with unemployed people, mostly Maghreb, who can’t get jobs because their last name isn’t “French” enough. Go to Avignon and you’ll see a historic city center with more empty storefronts than actual businesses. You have unemployment as high as 30% in those areas. Down in Marseille, especially near Bougainville, you have drug gangs armed with AK-47s. Ten minutes with the Gendarmes in Marseille and you’ll think you’re in a rough neighborhood in Tunisia rather than a highly developed Western European country. Judging American innovation by visiting the Tenderloin is like judging French food by eating at a kebab shop. The homeless issues aren’t because of Silicon Valley, it’s because of a certain breed of politics endemic to California, namely NIMBY policies, regulation and taxation that is the very opposite of innovation. The San Francisco Bay Area is a center of innovation despite these policies, not because of them.
- Mirioron 7y ago
  I'm European too and I really wish people from Europe didn't have an attitude like yours. Some parts of Europe are incredibly poor, but of course we have a much smaller homeless problem, because if you're truly without shelter then you simply die in winter.
  - franciscop 7y ago
    I'm from Spain and there are homeless people in Spain, just a lot less than in the US. But it's not because they die in winter, it is because you don't become automatically poor if you lose your job, or if you need an operation, or if you study at university. It's safety nets that avoid people losing everything and becoming homeless.

manigandham 7y ago

Where do you think jobs come from?

hrktb 7y ago
Businesses that don’t have security issues when handling private data, obviously. I agree with the GP, in that ease of starting companies should not be the primary goal, setting security and privacy on the back seat. It shouldn’t harder than it needs to, not easier at any cost.
- manigandham 7y ago
  > It shouldn’t harder than it needs to This is what's happening though.

Silhouette 7y ago

No-one seems to have suggested that it’s the one thing we should optimise for, but it is important. Small businesses are the foundation of economies, and every extra overhead ultimately damages those economies and so needs some justification that is of greater value, financial or otherwise. One year on, it’s still not clear to me that GDPR has achieved that greater good, and I write that as someone who is a very strong believer in stronger privacy laws in principle.