5 ms·

An internet mob falsely painted a Chipotle employee as racist

103 points by curtis 7y ago

liquidify 7y ago
Seems like Chipotle should have to pony up for wrongful termination.
- classichasclass 7y ago
  I'm impressed she didn't take their offer. She's right: they seemed to have completely discounted her story and the story of her co-workers. That's not a company I'd be loyal to either.
  - HarryHirsch 7y ago
    Caving in to Twitter crusaders increases shareholder value, but due process and methodic investigation costs money and public goodwill. Deus vult! Mammon demands his pound of flesh, and we oblige because Mammon is God.
- rhexs 7y ago
  Seems like a pretty easy settlement. Hope she gets a lot for this.
  - cortesoft 7y ago
    Why would it be an easy settlement? What law did they break? There is no law protecting her.
  - astura 7y ago
    My entire working life (>20 years) I've always been forced to sign an agreement that I was an employee "at will" and either myself or the company could terminate employment at any time for any reason or no reason at all. Absent membership in a union, I assume she signed a similar agreement, because it's totally standard in the US.
- sir_kin 7y ago
  With at-will employment, Chipotle can fire her for no reason at all. > This means that employers may terminate employees for any reason or for no reason at all, as long as it is not illegal. [1] Wrongful termination would only apply if Chipotle fired her for being a member of a protected class, or as retaliation for asserted their legal rights. Neither of which applies here. [1] https://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/article/wrongful-termination-in-maryland.html https://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/article/wrongful-term...
  - defen 7y ago
    It was Minnesota, not Maryland. Employers in Minnesota do have to give a truthful reason for termination, if requested in writing [1]. I don't know if she requested that, but I would be interested how that would play out if the reason given is fundamentally wrong. In other words, was she fired "for being racist"? Or was she fired because "people on the Internet were mad at her"? [1] https://www.dli.mn.gov/business/employment-practices/employment-termination https://www.dli.mn.gov/business/employment-practices/employm...
- cortesoft 7y ago
  What protected class did they fire her for being in?
bdcravens 7y ago
I remember when the news about Jussie Smollet broke, the usual SJWs on Twitter erupted in a tweet storm like they always do. (I follow a lot of great programmers who have a wide array of opinions and ideologies outside of their technical expertise) As what many have come to accept as the truth came out, no one ever retracted. These are smart people, some of which have very high feedback here on HN. It seems to me however that their highly tuned critical thinking skills take a backseat to a desire to be mad about the state of the world, with little regard or accountability to what their words can mean.
- antidaily 7y ago
  No one ever? Hmm.
  - umanwizard 7y ago
    It’s obvious from the context that GP means as far as they have seen among the people they follow on Twitter.
  - bdcravens 7y ago
    Among those I follow, no.
- onion2k 7y ago
  These are smart people, some of which have very high feedback here on HN. All HN points mean is that more people on HN agree with you on a topic than disagree with you, or that you brought something the people here found interesting. They are in no way a proxy for smartness. There are some very intelligent and insightful posts by people with 10 HN points, and some completely dumb posts by people with around 16700 points.
  - mrec 7y ago
    > more people on HN agree with you on a topic than disagree with you They don't even mean that. There's a (500?) karma threshold for being able to downvote, whereas anyone can upvote.
eecc 7y ago
Love the stock photo, a punk photoshop of a classic TiBook keyboard. Sorry for the detour (wow, hold off the downvotes for a second and appreciate this design, it’s such a pinnacle of the ‘90s and the photo edit captures it so well. Odd that it ended up on this article... a random picture of birds ruffling feathers would have been more apt.)
- eecc 7y ago
  Anyway, article is an unreadable breakbeat... could be a twitter thread Bah
jamesrcole 7y ago
On the topic of internet mobs, the term "lapidation" was recently suggested as a word to describe "what happens when a group of people, outraged by some real or imagined transgression, responds in a way that is disproportionate to the occasion, thus ruining the transgressor’s day, month, year or life." https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2019-05-23/harvard-professor-falls-victim-to-group-outrage https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2019-05-23/harvar...
- umanwizard 7y ago
  Which is the normal word for stoning in French and I assume other Latin-based languages. Repurposing it for something else in English could get confusing.
  - ErikVandeWater 7y ago
    The suggested additional definition makes sense; it would be hard to imagine a situation where someone would get confused and imagine a Chipotle employee was _literally_ stoned to death.
rdiddly 7y ago
Ha - they offered to hire her back and she declined. Gotta agree there. Who wants to work for a company that outsources its hire/fire decisions to a vote among random Twitter users? The question now though is, are there any employers left that don't do that?
- barberousse 7y ago
  I think it'd be naive to suppose that there's some company out there that's gonna stand up to the mob. A company is first and foremost attempting to make money. The mob isn't ever going to review the history and actions of the company either in the moment or even after the fact, groupthink isn't complicated enough for that, so company's will likely default to what Chipotle did.
  - atomical 7y ago
    Corporations can signal their values through acting morally and with regard to the health and safety of society. Check out Patagonia. They donated $10 million saved in tax cuts to environmental groups. Tyler Cowen covers other instances in his new book: Big Business: A Love Letter to an American Anti-Hero.
    - rdiddly 7y ago
      So the public exposure of ordinary folks (a.k.a. "social media") has led to an intrusion of PR into HR. Anybody in America tempted to look with scorn on China's new social credit system would do well to notice the similarities. And the differences aren't that surprising either - China's is controlled by the government; ours is controlled by corporations.
blfr 7y ago
Journos did the same to Nick Sandmann and IIRC CNN's people were in on it. It's not just random tweeters, the priests of facts and truth are no better.
- makomk 7y ago
  Journalists helped do the same to her too, apparently. It gets one sentence's mention in the article: "The incident was covered by media organizations such as ABC News and Fox News."
  - tzs 7y ago
    Here's the ABC News coverage [1]. Here's the Fox News coverage [2]. Both seem reasonable. They report the accusation against her, that it went viral, that she was fired, and that after that Tweets were found from showing that one of the people who was refused service did apparently have a history of stealing from restaurants. [1] https://abc7.com/society/chipotle-manager-fired-after-refusing-to-serve-customers-in-viral-video/4713130/ https://abc7.com/society/chipotle-manager-fired-after-refusi... [2] https://www.foxnews.com/food-drink/chipotle-fires-manager-who-refused-to-serve-black-customers-but-restaurant-admits-they-might-have-failed-to-pay-for-meals-before https://www.foxnews.com/food-drink/chipotle-fires-manager-wh...
Grollicus 7y ago
Another "feels" article about a problem that can only improve with more rationality. Now for the other direction. It's good to get the word out there, but if discussion culture stays like this it's just a question of time before the same happens to the next victim
wikigrrrrl 7y ago
Most videos like this one are obviously attempts at demonizing innocent people and most people who see these can easily spot such a video. It all really depends on what the viewer chooses to believe. Sadly, there are millions of people who will either accept the bogus claim of racism without thinking or even watching the video or they'll simply pretend that it's the real deal and slam the accused just to be mean.
- thosakwe 7y ago
  > Most videos like this one are obviously attempts at demonizing innocent people "Most"? Be honest. What do you think of the other incidents mentioned in this very article, all of which were real? Not to mention the countless other times this has happened. This situation is pretty clearly an anomaly - it's easy to see.

103 points by curtis 7y ago

liquidify 7y ago

Seems like Chipotle should have to pony up for wrongful termination.

classichasclass 7y ago
I'm impressed she didn't take their offer. She's right: they seemed to have completely discounted her story and the story of her co-workers. That's not a company I'd be loyal to either.
- HarryHirsch 7y ago
  Caving in to Twitter crusaders increases shareholder value, but due process and methodic investigation costs money and public goodwill. Deus vult! Mammon demands his pound of flesh, and we oblige because Mammon is God.
rhexs 7y ago
Seems like a pretty easy settlement. Hope she gets a lot for this.
- cortesoft 7y ago
  Why would it be an easy settlement? What law did they break? There is no law protecting her.
- astura 7y ago
  My entire working life (>20 years) I've always been forced to sign an agreement that I was an employee "at will" and either myself or the company could terminate employment at any time for any reason or no reason at all. Absent membership in a union, I assume she signed a similar agreement, because it's totally standard in the US.
sir_kin 7y ago
With at-will employment, Chipotle can fire her for no reason at all. > This means that employers may terminate employees for any reason or for no reason at all, as long as it is not illegal. [1] Wrongful termination would only apply if Chipotle fired her for being a member of a protected class, or as retaliation for asserted their legal rights. Neither of which applies here. [1] https://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/article/wrongful-termination-in-maryland.html https://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/article/wrongful-term...
- defen 7y ago
  It was Minnesota, not Maryland. Employers in Minnesota do have to give a truthful reason for termination, if requested in writing [1]. I don't know if she requested that, but I would be interested how that would play out if the reason given is fundamentally wrong. In other words, was she fired "for being racist"? Or was she fired because "people on the Internet were mad at her"? [1] https://www.dli.mn.gov/business/employment-practices/employment-termination https://www.dli.mn.gov/business/employment-practices/employm...
cortesoft 7y ago
What protected class did they fire her for being in?

bdcravens 7y ago

I remember when the news about Jussie Smollet broke, the usual SJWs on Twitter erupted in a tweet storm like they always do. (I follow a lot of great programmers who have a wide array of opinions and ideologies outside of their technical expertise) As what many have come to accept as the truth came out, no one ever retracted. These are smart people, some of which have very high feedback here on HN. It seems to me however that their highly tuned critical thinking skills take a backseat to a desire to be mad about the state of the world, with little regard or accountability to what their words can mean.

antidaily 7y ago
No one ever? Hmm.
- umanwizard 7y ago
  It’s obvious from the context that GP means as far as they have seen among the people they follow on Twitter.
- bdcravens 7y ago
  Among those I follow, no.
onion2k 7y ago
These are smart people, some of which have very high feedback here on HN. All HN points mean is that more people on HN agree with you on a topic than disagree with you, or that you brought something the people here found interesting. They are in no way a proxy for smartness. There are some very intelligent and insightful posts by people with 10 HN points, and some completely dumb posts by people with around 16700 points.
- mrec 7y ago
  > more people on HN agree with you on a topic than disagree with you They don't even mean that. There's a (500?) karma threshold for being able to downvote, whereas anyone can upvote.

eecc 7y ago

Love the stock photo, a punk photoshop of a classic TiBook keyboard. Sorry for the detour (wow, hold off the downvotes for a second and appreciate this design, it’s such a pinnacle of the ‘90s and the photo edit captures it so well. Odd that it ended up on this article... a random picture of birds ruffling feathers would have been more apt.)

eecc 7y ago
Anyway, article is an unreadable breakbeat... could be a twitter thread Bah

jamesrcole 7y ago

On the topic of internet mobs, the term "lapidation" was recently suggested as a word to describe "what happens when a group of people, outraged by some real or imagined transgression, responds in a way that is disproportionate to the occasion, thus ruining the transgressor’s day, month, year or life." https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2019-05-23/harvard-professor-falls-victim-to-group-outrage https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2019-05-23/harvar...

umanwizard 7y ago
Which is the normal word for stoning in French and I assume other Latin-based languages. Repurposing it for something else in English could get confusing.
- ErikVandeWater 7y ago
  The suggested additional definition makes sense; it would be hard to imagine a situation where someone would get confused and imagine a Chipotle employee was _literally_ stoned to death.

rdiddly 7y ago

Ha - they offered to hire her back and she declined. Gotta agree there. Who wants to work for a company that outsources its hire/fire decisions to a vote among random Twitter users? The question now though is, are there any employers left that don't do that?

barberousse 7y ago
I think it'd be naive to suppose that there's some company out there that's gonna stand up to the mob. A company is first and foremost attempting to make money. The mob isn't ever going to review the history and actions of the company either in the moment or even after the fact, groupthink isn't complicated enough for that, so company's will likely default to what Chipotle did.
- atomical 7y ago
  Corporations can signal their values through acting morally and with regard to the health and safety of society. Check out Patagonia. They donated $10 million saved in tax cuts to environmental groups. Tyler Cowen covers other instances in his new book: Big Business: A Love Letter to an American Anti-Hero.
  - rdiddly 7y ago
    So the public exposure of ordinary folks (a.k.a. "social media") has led to an intrusion of PR into HR. Anybody in America tempted to look with scorn on China's new social credit system would do well to notice the similarities. And the differences aren't that surprising either - China's is controlled by the government; ours is controlled by corporations.

blfr 7y ago

Journos did the same to Nick Sandmann and IIRC CNN's people were in on it. It's not just random tweeters, the priests of facts and truth are no better.

makomk 7y ago
Journalists helped do the same to her too, apparently. It gets one sentence's mention in the article: "The incident was covered by media organizations such as ABC News and Fox News."
- tzs 7y ago
  Here's the ABC News coverage [1]. Here's the Fox News coverage [2]. Both seem reasonable. They report the accusation against her, that it went viral, that she was fired, and that after that Tweets were found from showing that one of the people who was refused service did apparently have a history of stealing from restaurants. [1] https://abc7.com/society/chipotle-manager-fired-after-refusing-to-serve-customers-in-viral-video/4713130/ https://abc7.com/society/chipotle-manager-fired-after-refusi... [2] https://www.foxnews.com/food-drink/chipotle-fires-manager-who-refused-to-serve-black-customers-but-restaurant-admits-they-might-have-failed-to-pay-for-meals-before https://www.foxnews.com/food-drink/chipotle-fires-manager-wh...

Grollicus 7y ago

Another "feels" article about a problem that can only improve with more rationality. Now for the other direction. It's good to get the word out there, but if discussion culture stays like this it's just a question of time before the same happens to the next victim

wikigrrrrl 7y ago

Most videos like this one are obviously attempts at demonizing innocent people and most people who see these can easily spot such a video. It all really depends on what the viewer chooses to believe. Sadly, there are millions of people who will either accept the bogus claim of racism without thinking or even watching the video or they'll simply pretend that it's the real deal and slam the accused just to be mean.

thosakwe 7y ago
> Most videos like this one are obviously attempts at demonizing innocent people "Most"? Be honest. What do you think of the other incidents mentioned in this very article, all of which were real? Not to mention the countless other times this has happened. This situation is pretty clearly an anomaly - it's easy to see.