8 ms·

Ditching processed foods won’t be easy – The barriers to cooking from scratch

32 points by tshannon 7y ago

taneq 7y ago
To cook from scratch, you must first invent the universe.
- SketchySeaBeast 7y ago
  I got all the way to evolution but screwed up somewhere in the precambrian. Now I have a race of hyper-intelligent lizardmen living in my basement. Needless to say, the soufflé is ruined.
  - taneq 7y ago
    But I bet the Komodo-steaks are to die for!
mark_l_watson 7y ago
Two years ago I went on the ‘eat no processed foods’ Fuhrman diet and it had an amazingly positive effect on my health. I realize that I am just one data point but this is my personal experience. Because we moved for a job I eventually started eating processed food and got off of the diet. Within a few months, I physically felt less good, like I was before before the Fuhrman diet. Again, I am just one data point, but for me the positive effects of the diet were not permanent. Now my wife and I are talking about both going on the Fuhrman diet. She did not join me before, but likes the idea of all fresh cooking, no processed foods.
- SketchySeaBeast 7y ago
  No one is arguing against having a higher quality, non-processed diet. The article is pointing out all the impediments to try to achieve that, especially focusing on the lower and lower-middle class. It takes time, coordination, money, and energy to cook right, and that's really hard for a lot of people.
  - saalweachter 7y ago
    And hell, some people will suck at it. There have always been bad cooks.
    - treerock 7y ago
      I've always though it would make sense to outsource home style cooking to specialists who can cook in bulk much cheaper (and often higher quality) than individuals can cook at home. I'm surprised that Polish 'Milk Bar'[1] type places, aren't more common. [1]:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bar_mleczny https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bar_mleczny
      - SketchySeaBeast 7y ago
        The problem now is that they will have to use salt and sugar to make up on taste.
        treerock 7y ago
        Why? Is bulk/restaurant produced food inherently more bland than home cooked?
        SketchySeaBeast 7y ago
        No, but it's made more tasty with those items. The milk bars seem to have been named that way for a reason - did they make extensive use of cream?
        treerock 7y ago
        Apparently yeah. > Although the typical bar mleczny had a menu based on dairy items, these establishments generally also served other, non-dairy traditional Polish dishes as well. But when I visited, it was more like a canteen that served quality, home-style meals.
- AdmiralAsshat 7y ago
  > Two years ago I went on the ‘eat no processed foods’ Fuhrman diet and it had an amazingly positive effect on my health. I realize that I am just one data point but this is my personal experience. As a counter data point, I started down an "eat no processed foods" diet about four years ago and I'm the heaviest I've ever been. But to blame the diet would ignore more obvious possibilities like my metabolism slowing down as I hit 30, and not going to the gym as often as I used to.
duxup 7y ago
Cooking is a skill and like any skill it takes time to both do it, and get better, and worse is when you fail it really sucks as you've spent a lot of time and you're not happy with what you're eating.... that time, effort, and such is a huge barrier. A lot of people without a lot of money often don't have a huge amount of time to invest in other things either. Long before I had a better job I worked multiple jobs, went to school, I ate in my car on the way to doing things maybe 60 or 70% of the time. All in an effort to do things that would help me move on. The idea of staying home and coking regularly (and spending extra money gathering up the food etc) was out of the question. Being poor is exhausting. Having said that I'm not sure what this article means by "cooking from scratch". Would throwing some chicken, veggies, potatoes on the grill count? There are a lot of varying levels of effort that to me would still count as "cooking" and not just warming some reprocessed stuff.
- SketchySeaBeast 7y ago
  > "Lots of families in our study cooked almost every night, in part because it was the cheapest option. But when their cupboards ran bare, they ate ramen and hot dogs, not a pan of roast chicken and vegetables, as food gurus recommend. Mothers said that if they had more money, they'd buy fresh fruit for their kids, but this was just an occasional splurge, not an everyday reality. Even the more financially stable middle-class mothers in our study talked about making trade-offs between the foods they wanted to buy for their families and the foods they felt they could afford." Chicken, veggies and potatoes, as well as the grill, all cost money. The grill especially. That's a large initial investment - yes, you can buy a cheap grill, but then you have to buy the propane, and the food that comes off it going to be much harder to get palatable.
  - AlexTWithBeard 7y ago
    My grill is made of some bricks and a grate, both are picked up at the nearest junkyard. Getting free firewood requires some elbow grease though...
    - SketchySeaBeast 7y ago
javagram 7y ago
This article is written as if you have to be able to make fancy “foodie” or restaurant style meals to avoid ultra processed foods. Wouldn’t cracking a can of beans and a bag of rice qualify as well? Our ancestors had far less resources than us and still managed to make food without spaghetti-o cans or ramen packets. Referencing people living in hotel rooms or who don’t own a knife seems like a distraction. Obviously being homeless is bad, but there are plenty of people who can afford a $10 knife and have a stove in their residence who still eat ultra processed diets and become obese.
- hprotagonist 7y ago
  “bodega beans” are really cheap. http://www.amateurgourmet.com/2007/12/rachel_whartons.html http://www.amateurgourmet.com/2007/12/rachel_whartons.html the trick is that you have to accept eating repetitive meals that aren’t the most exciting thing.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- duxup 7y ago
  Yeah the article really doesn't define "from scratch". IMO some good chicken (there are varying levels of processing and quality out there so let's assume it's good), potatoes, and veggies can be done relatively quickly. It still takes work to some extent but I'm not at all sure exactly what that article means by "from scratch". This article kinda sucks as it isn't at all clear what they're talking about.
- tchaffee 7y ago
  > can of beans That's processed food. Perhaps healthier than other processed food, but not the same as cooking beans from scratch. https://www.superfoodly.com/are-canned-beans-healthy/ https://www.superfoodly.com/are-canned-beans-healthy/ And cooking beans from scratch involves about 5 minutes of labor, including soaking them overnight, throwing them in a pot, and setting an alarm for when they are done cooking.
  - deleted 7y ago
vorpalhex 7y ago
> First, it takes money. Healthier diets... generally cost more... They note that the unprocessed diet they fed participants cost 40% more than the ultra-processed diet. And yet, a paragraph later: > Lots of families in our study cooked almost every night, in part because it was the cheapest option So wait, hold on, is cooking more expensive or not? What are they eating that's supposedly healthier but significantly more expensive? > the labor of shopping (often at multiple stores) What major grocery chain doesn't carry everything needed to make dinner? > This means making healthy food more affordable, but it also means addressing the other challenges families face: for example, by guaranteeing workers a living wage and fair working conditions and by investing in families through universal free school lunch and subsidized child care, so that parents don't feel like they're doing it all on their own. Wait, hold on, what? I thought we were talking about food cooking barriers? I can understand the connection to free school lunch (make sure kids get one solid meal in them a day, if you can call government supplied cafeteria materials food), but, what?
- NotPaidToPost 7y ago
  There is a whole 'lobby' that tries to convince public opinion and government that bad diets, including too much processed food, are not people's fault because they are just victims of corporations and capitalist exploitation. This is of course total BS and eating healthily is not more expensive, and in any case in Western countries food has never been so cheap relative to income [0] [1]. [0] In US : https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2015/03/02/389578089/your-grandparents-spent-more-of-their-money-on-food-than-you-do https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2015/03/02/389578089/yo... [1] In UK : https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-45559594 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-45559594
  - umvi 7y ago
    I mean, it's partially true. In cities there is such a thing as "food deserts" where it is hard to find fresh affordable groceries. But I admit, part of it is also just poor education/culture. In the area I live, there are no affordable American grocery stores. There is, however, McDonald's and a Wendy's with cheap fast food. If you are in the know, however, there is an affordable Latin American grocer that sells bulk rice, lentils, beans, tortillas, even some produce, etc. I almost never see Americans in there, but I see tons of El Salvadorian immigrants. Their culture involves cooking from raw ingredients more than ours though so I suspect they save a lot of money that way. Lentils, rice, and beans are way better for you than McChickens/fries.
orev 7y ago
A regular oven is one of the best tools you have to make food from scratch, yet people seem to want to find every way to avoid using them. They try to use toaster ovens, microwave ovens, convection ovens, air fryers, instant pots, etc... when most of the time a regular oven can do the job. You can make a whole meal with a few baking sheets and 45 minutes. You just put the stuff in and check on it once in a while. Take out the veg after 25 min. It doesn’t get much easier than that.
- bluedino 7y ago
  One trick is getting the seasoning right, the other is getting the cooking times right. An easy meal is to cut various vegetables up, season, and bake. Potato, green beans, onion, bell pepper, broccoli, whatever they have on sale. Of course the potato has to be e cut smaller than the broccoli or the broccoli will be disintegrated or incinerated by the time the potato is done cooking.
  - orev 7y ago
    Or cook things on separate pans so you can take them out when each is done.
- duxup 7y ago
  I think one of the issues is that a lot of people simply don't know how to cook and these one off tools like insta pots or whatever make it clear what to do for what and how. An oven doesn't make anything apparent and a lot of ovens are terrible with hot and cold spots and just suck at being ovens in general.
- snazz 7y ago
  Where I live, firing up the oven heats the house noticeably, which is nice in the winter and a huge energy cost in the summer (oven plus A/C). I like grilling stuff outside when I can.
- mrob 7y ago
  I disagree. A regular oven is slow and inefficient because of the high thermal mass (taking a long time to heat to working temperature), and it's hard to control. IMO, the most valuable cooking tool is the microwave oven. You can cook grains (pasta, rice, oatmeal etc.) and frozen vegetables, and you can reheat canned beans. It's fast and flexible, and much cheaper and smaller than a regular oven. Second most valuable cooking tool is an electric pressure cooker. This lets you cook dry beans (cheaper than canned), and some have a saute mode for when you're making something fancy. It's better than the microwave for cooking large quantities of food, because you don't need to stir it for even heat distribution. And you can even cook bread in a pressure cooker if you don't mind a soft crust.
dvfjsdhgfv 7y ago
> the unprocessed diet they fed participants cost 40% more than the ultra-processed diet. And lots of American families don't have more money to spend on food. This fragment made me so sad. if the above is true, it basically means many people in the USA don't have enough money to eat real food and have to live on processed junk instead.
- snazz 7y ago
  Type “food desert” into your favorite search engine.
StavrosK 7y ago
Seeing these articles always illustrates how some things are out of the ordinary in the US, but which other countries take for granted. In Greece, for example, cooking a meal every day is the norm, as in many other countries I've been to. I wonder how the US society has "forgotten" this practice.
- Loughla 7y ago
  Time. Two working parents or one working single parent. Ideally just 40 hours a week, but could be more than that, depending on career field. School for kids. After school if grades are struggling. Or after school if you're in an 'at-risk' category (see single parent or low income) Formalized, scheduled, regimented sports/activities after school. Formalized 'family bonding' events at schools or community centers that are, for all intents and purposes, required by societal pressures. All of these things take time. Pre-made meals are an easy, convenient way to save time.
  - StavrosK 7y ago
    We do all of that as well, except the "family bonding" events, so I don't think that's it...
    - Loughla 7y ago
      Sample Size: 1 Not meant to be snarky, but honestly, the one thing I've learned in life is that just because I can do it, doesn't mean everyone else's life is the same.
      - StavrosK 7y ago
        One is not equal to zero, though. One data point is way, way more indicative of something than zero data points.
        Loughla 7y ago
        Okay? Again, this is not intended to be snarky - if we're flexing anecdotal data, I personally know 40 families for who (whom?) my statements are true.
i_don_t_know 7y ago
Five years ago on NPR: https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2014/08/01/337141837/cheap-eats-cookbook-shows-how-to-eat-well-on-a-food-stamp-budget https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2014/08/01/337141837/ch... (Cheap Eats: Cookbook Shows How To Eat Well On A Food Stamp Budget)
- duxup 7y ago
  I don't know if you're pointing out a contradiction or not but I'll say I don't think those two articles are necessarily a contradiction. I hate the "Ditching processed foods won't be easy" article as it doesn't define anything. Lots of thing are possible, there is information out there, but still might not be "easy".
  - i_don_t_know 7y ago
    It started out as a contradiction because I thought the argument was that it's expensive. But I guess I should have read the article first. As usual it's more complicated. Other factors are that it takes effort (it's work to some people after an already potentially long work day) and time (to shop, to cook and for everyone to be at home at the same time). And I suspect those are bigger barriers than just the financials.
pmlnr 7y ago
- dice onions - dice chicken - mix the onions with salt, pepper, paprika powder - put the mix in a pan - fry it on a small amount of oil until the onion gets transparent - add the chicken - add a tiny amount of water - let it boil for ~30 mins Sure, lots of barriers.
- SketchySeaBeast 7y ago
  You've made one "meal", which is chicken and onions, and takes about an hour to prepare it (cutting, sauteing, boiling).
  - AstralStorm 7y ago
    Once you have a timer, it takes 10 minutes. It is scalable too. No need to watch it cook. And you can prepare it ahead of time then reheat...
- nkrisc 7y ago
  Hell, even just this: Preheat oven to 400. Toss chicken breasts in oil and seasoning of choice. Put in baking dish and bake for ~18-20 minutes. Serve with some shredded cabbage (my personal choice) or any other veggies. Heck, buy a bag of frozen broccoli and just microwaves small amounts at a time.
sureaboutthis 7y ago
A year ago, my son told me he was spending more money than we thought he should on groceries. So my wife and I decided to keep track of how much we spend on eating. This includes the very rare times we eat at restaurants, which might include a burger joint if we're stuck on the road somewhere, and high end restaurants for birthdays and anniversary. I do all the cooking. I rarely use anything from a box or a can. That is, I make my own pasta and tomato sauce and pizza dough and sourdough bread, for example. I also use higher end recipes, not sloppy joe dinners, including steaks and chicken and I more often buy spices like parsley and oregano fresh and chop them myself and not dried in a jar. The numbers came in, interestingly enough, at $187 each week on average every time. This is for my wife and myself alone plus (cause my wife said so) about $15 a week for our two dogs cause, you know, they're family, too. For reasons I am not positive about, our weekly expenditure for the last three months has risen to $209 a week. It had appeared to me that items cost more than in the past but I was unsure till I ran the numbers just a couple of days ago. Have grocery prices gone up? In any case, cooking well designed meals takes an effort. Once you find recipes you like and get used to making them, it's easier, but it will still take one to two hours for every meal without rushing. I work out of my house and two major grocery stores down the street so that makes things easier. EDIT: I should add that I am in the Midwest USA.
iamnothere 7y ago
I would like to see more efforts like this: * https://efficiencyiseverything.com/calorie-per-dollar-list/ https://efficiencyiseverything.com/calorie-per-dollar-list/ * https://efficiencyiseverything.com/The-Cookbook-v-1.4.pdf https://efficiencyiseverything.com/The-Cookbook-v-1.4.pdf * https://efficiencyiseverything.com/Weekly_Groceries.pdf https://efficiencyiseverything.com/Weekly_Groceries.pdf Honestly, it is not that expensive to cook at home. The "foodie" industry fills the Internet with recipes that are complicated and expensive, and this can definitely be a barrier for people who don't know how to cook. But once you learn to avoid recipes with 10+ ingredients, it's actually less of a time commitment than running out for fast food, as long as you have ingredients on hand. Once you know what you like and you always have your staples available, it becomes almost automatic. It does take time to learn this and develop your own system, however.
- minikites 7y ago
  You're leaving out the time it takes to shop (many poor people live in food deserts and would have to travel quite far for things like fish sauce and green onion) and the time it takes to cook (in between working two jobs and taking care of a child). Time is the much more valuable resource as it relates to healthy cooking and eating.
  - iamnothere 7y ago
    Food deserts are probably the biggest issue for some low-income people. This is a big problem and obviously needs to be addressed, especially for people who may not have access to transportation. Cooking itself does not have to take that much time. Many recipes can be prepared using rough chopping and only occasional observation/adjustment.
- overkill28 7y ago
  Seriously, it bugs me when people try to cook and start with a giant, very precise recipe that has you using multiple pans and a laundry list of fresh herbs and spices. That might be fun for a special occasion but it's not a good way to introduce beginners to cooking. Salt, pepper, olive oil. Then go get any vegetables, grains and proteins that you like. Work your way up from there.
sct202 7y ago
It's kind of interesting that they named their book after pressure cookers, which address a lot of the problems of not having working appliances, living in motels, and are relatively affordable compared to a gas utility hookup. Instant Pots and knock-offs are <$50 now and are easy enough to use with just a standard outlet.
chuckgreenman 7y ago
I recently changed how I eat, mostly chicken thighs, stir fry beef, rice and canned / frozen vegetables depending on the deals for the week. Oatmeal for breakfast. Meals are clocking in between $0.90 and $2.50 per serving, It's pretty cheap to eat unprocessed foods, it's just gets kind of repetitive. I feel much better than I did when I was eating processed stuff and my food budget is much smaller.
- tchaffee 7y ago
  > it's just gets kind of repetitive. Look into herbs and other seasonings, and different cooking methods. Chinese cooking for example makes excellent use of them to make very different dishes from the same raw ingredients. A little bit of soy, Chinese cooking wine, and spring onions added to scrambled eggs is very different from steamed eggs for example.
lqet 7y ago
> First, it takes money. Healthier diets — diets rich in fresh produce and lean proteins — generally cost more. 2.5 kilos of potatoes usually cost between 1-2 EUR here. As a single person, you can live days on this. Compare this to a single frozen pizza, which usually costs the same (1-2 EUR). 2kg of carrots cost 1.99 EUR in my local supermarket, you can get it way cheaper at Aldi. A package of soup vegetables (consisting of 1-2 carrots, an onion, a quarter celery, leek and fresh parsley) is usually below 1 EUR and is (together with a can of tomatoes for 0.39 EUR) enough to form the basis of (for example) a lentil stew (a 500g bad of dried lentils is 2 EUR, you usually only need 100g for a 2 person meal), or a bolognese (add 250g of minced meat), or a potato stew (add the potatoes mentioned above), or... you don't even need the package of vegetable soups, as buying these vegetables in larger amounts for an entire week is even cheaper. Another example: a can of tomatoes (39 cents), some oil and a single onion (1kg of onions is usually around 80 cents) are enough to make a fresh tomato sauce. A 500g bag of pasta (say: Penne) costs 39 cent if you buy the cheap brand. This is enough for 2 people, at under 50 cent per person. Another example: spaghetti aglio e olio. You literally need nothing more than some oil, pepper, spaghetti (39 cent), some garlic (3 bulbs are usually under 1 EUR, so a single clove is maybe 4-5 cent and fresh parsley. You have a very tasty, fresh meal which can be cooked in 10 minutes, again for under 50 cents per person. Another example: fresh bread. You need roughly 250g of flour (500g are around 79 cent), water, salt (which is so cheap I won't even mention it) and dried yeast (under 30 cents). Fresh bread for 2 people, again for under 50 cents per person. Add a fresh cucumber, 1-2 fresh tomatoes, salt, pepper, and you have a tasty evening meal for under 1 EUR per person. I could go on and on. I can get quite agitated if people claim that "cooking fresh" is much more expensive than processed food. I cooked fresh and daily for years as a student, very often for 2 people, on a very limited budget, and 2 EUR per day was usually more than enough. All you need is practice.
- minikites 7y ago
  >2.5 kilos of potatoes usually cost between 1-2 EUR here. As a single person, you can live days on this. So poor people should live like it's 19th century Ireland? I'm sure that will catch on.
  - 7y ago
bluedino 7y ago
>> they ate an average of 508 calories more per day and gained an average of 2 pounds over the two-week period, providing evidence that there may be something about processed food that drives people to overeat and gain weight. Has the author tried eating a caloric excess of lean meats and non-fried, non-starch vegetables? It's damn near impossible. Throw some cheese, bread, fried potatoes, mayo, and sugary drinks in there and you'll do it without blinking an eye. But not with chicken, green beans, and other 'healthy foods'
- minikites 7y ago
  >lean meats and non-fried, non-starch vegetables That's more difficult than you think: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_desert https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_desert >In 2010, the United States Department of Agriculture (USDA) reported that 23.5 million Americans live in a food desert, meaning that they live more than one mile from a supermarket in urban or suburban areas, and more than 10 miles from a supermarket in rural areas.[7] Food deserts lack whole food providers who supply fresh protein sources (such as poultry, fish and meats) along with whole food such as fresh fruits and vegetables, and instead provide processed and sugar- and fat-laden foods in convenience stores.
Merrill 7y ago
There is hardly anything easier than microwaving a potato and microwaving frozen vegetables, which are just as nutritious as fresh and a lot cheaper on sale. Add a piece of protein fried in a pan and you are done. Rice cookers have also become inexpensive and foolproof to use.
saturdaysaint 7y ago
Healthy meal kits have been great "training wheels" for my wife and I to make less processed meals. Specifically, Hello Fresh meals typically have a major veggie/whole food emphasis. The biggest revelation is that roasting veggies with a little bit of olive oil and a little salt is an almost can't miss crowd pleaser that elevates every meal. Cherry tomatoes, green beans, sweet potatoes, asparagus, whatever. We try to get a roastable item or two every time we stop at a store.
msluyter 7y ago
For our family, time is the problem. I do almost all of the cooking, and -- much like when estimating software development -- often tend to underestimate how long even a fairly simple recipe will take. As I become a more experienced cook I become more efficient, but some nights we still end up eating quite late. Add to that non-trivial time for dishes/cleanup, and indeed, this rings true: The middle-class families in our study had more resources and more options but felt completely overwhelmed by hectic schedules and competing demands that left little time to cook. One strategy is batch cooking in advance on weekends and freezing meals, but for various reasons, we've been fairly poor at that. Incidentally, if you want to get better at cooking, I highly recommend Cook's Illustrated / America's Test Kitchen, in particular, their special edition magazines. They provide recipes but also techniques and the science behind the recipes. This one in particular is a gold mine and is almost falling apart from heavy use: https://shop.americastestkitchen.com/special-issues/cook-s-illustrated-skillet-dinners-special-collector-s-edition.html https://shop.americastestkitchen.com/special-issues/cook-s-i...
AstralStorm 7y ago
Bah. Hard thing to avoid is processed meat, as cooking meat right takes a tiny bit of skill and gear. Anything else, unimportant, super easy to make and generally available, except in literal food deserts. "Pot roast?! Who do you think we are, MILLIONAIRES?" The worst part is probably peeling. That takes serious effort. Then washing dishes. Then obviously shopping which has to be batched or mail in for efficiency. If you're rich enough, there are a whole range of ways to save time, from dishwashers, bigger selection of dishes, timers on hardware, through buying peeled or lightly prepared food such as frozen (not exactly ready to eat, that's expensive and uncontrollable) through mail shopping or hiring someone to shop for you. Finally, outsourcing cooking completely to someone competent, the most expensive way.

32 points by tshannon 7y ago

taneq 7y ago

To cook from scratch, you must first invent the universe.

SketchySeaBeast 7y ago
I got all the way to evolution but screwed up somewhere in the precambrian. Now I have a race of hyper-intelligent lizardmen living in my basement. Needless to say, the soufflé is ruined.
- taneq 7y ago
  But I bet the Komodo-steaks are to die for!

mark_l_watson 7y ago

Two years ago I went on the ‘eat no processed foods’ Fuhrman diet and it had an amazingly positive effect on my health. I realize that I am just one data point but this is my personal experience. Because we moved for a job I eventually started eating processed food and got off of the diet. Within a few months, I physically felt less good, like I was before before the Fuhrman diet. Again, I am just one data point, but for me the positive effects of the diet were not permanent. Now my wife and I are talking about both going on the Fuhrman diet. She did not join me before, but likes the idea of all fresh cooking, no processed foods.

SketchySeaBeast 7y ago
No one is arguing against having a higher quality, non-processed diet. The article is pointing out all the impediments to try to achieve that, especially focusing on the lower and lower-middle class. It takes time, coordination, money, and energy to cook right, and that's really hard for a lot of people.
- saalweachter 7y ago
  And hell, some people will suck at it. There have always been bad cooks.
  - treerock 7y ago
    I've always though it would make sense to outsource home style cooking to specialists who can cook in bulk much cheaper (and often higher quality) than individuals can cook at home. I'm surprised that Polish 'Milk Bar'[1] type places, aren't more common. [1]:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bar_mleczny https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bar_mleczny
    - SketchySeaBeast 7y ago
      The problem now is that they will have to use salt and sugar to make up on taste.
      - treerock 7y ago
        Why? Is bulk/restaurant produced food inherently more bland than home cooked?
        SketchySeaBeast 7y ago
        No, but it's made more tasty with those items. The milk bars seem to have been named that way for a reason - did they make extensive use of cream?
        treerock 7y ago
        Apparently yeah. > Although the typical bar mleczny had a menu based on dairy items, these establishments generally also served other, non-dairy traditional Polish dishes as well. But when I visited, it was more like a canteen that served quality, home-style meals.
AdmiralAsshat 7y ago
> Two years ago I went on the ‘eat no processed foods’ Fuhrman diet and it had an amazingly positive effect on my health. I realize that I am just one data point but this is my personal experience. As a counter data point, I started down an "eat no processed foods" diet about four years ago and I'm the heaviest I've ever been. But to blame the diet would ignore more obvious possibilities like my metabolism slowing down as I hit 30, and not going to the gym as often as I used to.

duxup 7y ago

Cooking is a skill and like any skill it takes time to both do it, and get better, and worse is when you fail it really sucks as you've spent a lot of time and you're not happy with what you're eating.... that time, effort, and such is a huge barrier. A lot of people without a lot of money often don't have a huge amount of time to invest in other things either. Long before I had a better job I worked multiple jobs, went to school, I ate in my car on the way to doing things maybe 60 or 70% of the time. All in an effort to do things that would help me move on. The idea of staying home and coking regularly (and spending extra money gathering up the food etc) was out of the question. Being poor is exhausting. Having said that I'm not sure what this article means by "cooking from scratch". Would throwing some chicken, veggies, potatoes on the grill count? There are a lot of varying levels of effort that to me would still count as "cooking" and not just warming some reprocessed stuff.

SketchySeaBeast 7y ago
> "Lots of families in our study cooked almost every night, in part because it was the cheapest option. But when their cupboards ran bare, they ate ramen and hot dogs, not a pan of roast chicken and vegetables, as food gurus recommend. Mothers said that if they had more money, they'd buy fresh fruit for their kids, but this was just an occasional splurge, not an everyday reality. Even the more financially stable middle-class mothers in our study talked about making trade-offs between the foods they wanted to buy for their families and the foods they felt they could afford." Chicken, veggies and potatoes, as well as the grill, all cost money. The grill especially. That's a large initial investment - yes, you can buy a cheap grill, but then you have to buy the propane, and the food that comes off it going to be much harder to get palatable.
- AlexTWithBeard 7y ago
  My grill is made of some bricks and a grate, both are picked up at the nearest junkyard. Getting free firewood requires some elbow grease though...
  - SketchySeaBeast 7y ago

javagram 7y ago

This article is written as if you have to be able to make fancy “foodie” or restaurant style meals to avoid ultra processed foods. Wouldn’t cracking a can of beans and a bag of rice qualify as well? Our ancestors had far less resources than us and still managed to make food without spaghetti-o cans or ramen packets. Referencing people living in hotel rooms or who don’t own a knife seems like a distraction. Obviously being homeless is bad, but there are plenty of people who can afford a $10 knife and have a stove in their residence who still eat ultra processed diets and become obese.

hprotagonist 7y ago
“bodega beans” are really cheap. http://www.amateurgourmet.com/2007/12/rachel_whartons.html http://www.amateurgourmet.com/2007/12/rachel_whartons.html the trick is that you have to accept eating repetitive meals that aren’t the most exciting thing.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
duxup 7y ago
Yeah the article really doesn't define "from scratch". IMO some good chicken (there are varying levels of processing and quality out there so let's assume it's good), potatoes, and veggies can be done relatively quickly. It still takes work to some extent but I'm not at all sure exactly what that article means by "from scratch". This article kinda sucks as it isn't at all clear what they're talking about.
tchaffee 7y ago
> can of beans That's processed food. Perhaps healthier than other processed food, but not the same as cooking beans from scratch. https://www.superfoodly.com/are-canned-beans-healthy/ https://www.superfoodly.com/are-canned-beans-healthy/ And cooking beans from scratch involves about 5 minutes of labor, including soaking them overnight, throwing them in a pot, and setting an alarm for when they are done cooking.
- deleted 7y ago

vorpalhex 7y ago

> First, it takes money. Healthier diets... generally cost more... They note that the unprocessed diet they fed participants cost 40% more than the ultra-processed diet. And yet, a paragraph later: > Lots of families in our study cooked almost every night, in part because it was the cheapest option So wait, hold on, is cooking more expensive or not? What are they eating that's supposedly healthier but significantly more expensive? > the labor of shopping (often at multiple stores) What major grocery chain doesn't carry everything needed to make dinner? > This means making healthy food more affordable, but it also means addressing the other challenges families face: for example, by guaranteeing workers a living wage and fair working conditions and by investing in families through universal free school lunch and subsidized child care, so that parents don't feel like they're doing it all on their own. Wait, hold on, what? I thought we were talking about food cooking barriers? I can understand the connection to free school lunch (make sure kids get one solid meal in them a day, if you can call government supplied cafeteria materials food), but, what?

NotPaidToPost 7y ago
There is a whole 'lobby' that tries to convince public opinion and government that bad diets, including too much processed food, are not people's fault because they are just victims of corporations and capitalist exploitation. This is of course total BS and eating healthily is not more expensive, and in any case in Western countries food has never been so cheap relative to income [0] [1]. [0] In US : https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2015/03/02/389578089/your-grandparents-spent-more-of-their-money-on-food-than-you-do https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2015/03/02/389578089/yo... [1] In UK : https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-45559594 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-45559594
- umvi 7y ago
  I mean, it's partially true. In cities there is such a thing as "food deserts" where it is hard to find fresh affordable groceries. But I admit, part of it is also just poor education/culture. In the area I live, there are no affordable American grocery stores. There is, however, McDonald's and a Wendy's with cheap fast food. If you are in the know, however, there is an affordable Latin American grocer that sells bulk rice, lentils, beans, tortillas, even some produce, etc. I almost never see Americans in there, but I see tons of El Salvadorian immigrants. Their culture involves cooking from raw ingredients more than ours though so I suspect they save a lot of money that way. Lentils, rice, and beans are way better for you than McChickens/fries.

orev 7y ago

A regular oven is one of the best tools you have to make food from scratch, yet people seem to want to find every way to avoid using them. They try to use toaster ovens, microwave ovens, convection ovens, air fryers, instant pots, etc... when most of the time a regular oven can do the job. You can make a whole meal with a few baking sheets and 45 minutes. You just put the stuff in and check on it once in a while. Take out the veg after 25 min. It doesn’t get much easier than that.

bluedino 7y ago
One trick is getting the seasoning right, the other is getting the cooking times right. An easy meal is to cut various vegetables up, season, and bake. Potato, green beans, onion, bell pepper, broccoli, whatever they have on sale. Of course the potato has to be e cut smaller than the broccoli or the broccoli will be disintegrated or incinerated by the time the potato is done cooking.
- orev 7y ago
  Or cook things on separate pans so you can take them out when each is done.
duxup 7y ago
I think one of the issues is that a lot of people simply don't know how to cook and these one off tools like insta pots or whatever make it clear what to do for what and how. An oven doesn't make anything apparent and a lot of ovens are terrible with hot and cold spots and just suck at being ovens in general.
snazz 7y ago
Where I live, firing up the oven heats the house noticeably, which is nice in the winter and a huge energy cost in the summer (oven plus A/C). I like grilling stuff outside when I can.
mrob 7y ago
I disagree. A regular oven is slow and inefficient because of the high thermal mass (taking a long time to heat to working temperature), and it's hard to control. IMO, the most valuable cooking tool is the microwave oven. You can cook grains (pasta, rice, oatmeal etc.) and frozen vegetables, and you can reheat canned beans. It's fast and flexible, and much cheaper and smaller than a regular oven. Second most valuable cooking tool is an electric pressure cooker. This lets you cook dry beans (cheaper than canned), and some have a saute mode for when you're making something fancy. It's better than the microwave for cooking large quantities of food, because you don't need to stir it for even heat distribution. And you can even cook bread in a pressure cooker if you don't mind a soft crust.

dvfjsdhgfv 7y ago

> the unprocessed diet they fed participants cost 40% more than the ultra-processed diet. And lots of American families don't have more money to spend on food. This fragment made me so sad. if the above is true, it basically means many people in the USA don't have enough money to eat real food and have to live on processed junk instead.

snazz 7y ago
Type “food desert” into your favorite search engine.

StavrosK 7y ago

Seeing these articles always illustrates how some things are out of the ordinary in the US, but which other countries take for granted. In Greece, for example, cooking a meal every day is the norm, as in many other countries I've been to. I wonder how the US society has "forgotten" this practice.

Loughla 7y ago
Time. Two working parents or one working single parent. Ideally just 40 hours a week, but could be more than that, depending on career field. School for kids. After school if grades are struggling. Or after school if you're in an 'at-risk' category (see single parent or low income) Formalized, scheduled, regimented sports/activities after school. Formalized 'family bonding' events at schools or community centers that are, for all intents and purposes, required by societal pressures. All of these things take time. Pre-made meals are an easy, convenient way to save time.
- StavrosK 7y ago
  We do all of that as well, except the "family bonding" events, so I don't think that's it...
  - Loughla 7y ago
    Sample Size: 1 Not meant to be snarky, but honestly, the one thing I've learned in life is that just because I can do it, doesn't mean everyone else's life is the same.
    - StavrosK 7y ago
      One is not equal to zero, though. One data point is way, way more indicative of something than zero data points.
      - Loughla 7y ago
        Okay? Again, this is not intended to be snarky - if we're flexing anecdotal data, I personally know 40 families for who (whom?) my statements are true.

i_don_t_know 7y ago

Five years ago on NPR: https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2014/08/01/337141837/cheap-eats-cookbook-shows-how-to-eat-well-on-a-food-stamp-budget https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2014/08/01/337141837/ch... (Cheap Eats: Cookbook Shows How To Eat Well On A Food Stamp Budget)

duxup 7y ago
I don't know if you're pointing out a contradiction or not but I'll say I don't think those two articles are necessarily a contradiction. I hate the "Ditching processed foods won't be easy" article as it doesn't define anything. Lots of thing are possible, there is information out there, but still might not be "easy".
- i_don_t_know 7y ago
  It started out as a contradiction because I thought the argument was that it's expensive. But I guess I should have read the article first. As usual it's more complicated. Other factors are that it takes effort (it's work to some people after an already potentially long work day) and time (to shop, to cook and for everyone to be at home at the same time). And I suspect those are bigger barriers than just the financials.

pmlnr 7y ago

- dice onions - dice chicken - mix the onions with salt, pepper, paprika powder - put the mix in a pan - fry it on a small amount of oil until the onion gets transparent - add the chicken - add a tiny amount of water - let it boil for ~30 mins Sure, lots of barriers.

SketchySeaBeast 7y ago
You've made one "meal", which is chicken and onions, and takes about an hour to prepare it (cutting, sauteing, boiling).
- AstralStorm 7y ago
  Once you have a timer, it takes 10 minutes. It is scalable too. No need to watch it cook. And you can prepare it ahead of time then reheat...
nkrisc 7y ago
Hell, even just this: Preheat oven to 400. Toss chicken breasts in oil and seasoning of choice. Put in baking dish and bake for ~18-20 minutes. Serve with some shredded cabbage (my personal choice) or any other veggies. Heck, buy a bag of frozen broccoli and just microwaves small amounts at a time.

sureaboutthis 7y ago

A year ago, my son told me he was spending more money than we thought he should on groceries. So my wife and I decided to keep track of how much we spend on eating. This includes the very rare times we eat at restaurants, which might include a burger joint if we're stuck on the road somewhere, and high end restaurants for birthdays and anniversary. I do all the cooking. I rarely use anything from a box or a can. That is, I make my own pasta and tomato sauce and pizza dough and sourdough bread, for example. I also use higher end recipes, not sloppy joe dinners, including steaks and chicken and I more often buy spices like parsley and oregano fresh and chop them myself and not dried in a jar. The numbers came in, interestingly enough, at $187 each week on average every time. This is for my wife and myself alone plus (cause my wife said so) about $15 a week for our two dogs cause, you know, they're family, too. For reasons I am not positive about, our weekly expenditure for the last three months has risen to $209 a week. It had appeared to me that items cost more than in the past but I was unsure till I ran the numbers just a couple of days ago. Have grocery prices gone up? In any case, cooking well designed meals takes an effort. Once you find recipes you like and get used to making them, it's easier, but it will still take one to two hours for every meal without rushing. I work out of my house and two major grocery stores down the street so that makes things easier. EDIT: I should add that I am in the Midwest USA.

iamnothere 7y ago

I would like to see more efforts like this: * https://efficiencyiseverything.com/calorie-per-dollar-list/ https://efficiencyiseverything.com/calorie-per-dollar-list/ * https://efficiencyiseverything.com/The-Cookbook-v-1.4.pdf https://efficiencyiseverything.com/The-Cookbook-v-1.4.pdf * https://efficiencyiseverything.com/Weekly_Groceries.pdf https://efficiencyiseverything.com/Weekly_Groceries.pdf Honestly, it is not that expensive to cook at home. The "foodie" industry fills the Internet with recipes that are complicated and expensive, and this can definitely be a barrier for people who don't know how to cook. But once you learn to avoid recipes with 10+ ingredients, it's actually less of a time commitment than running out for fast food, as long as you have ingredients on hand. Once you know what you like and you always have your staples available, it becomes almost automatic. It does take time to learn this and develop your own system, however.

minikites 7y ago
You're leaving out the time it takes to shop (many poor people live in food deserts and would have to travel quite far for things like fish sauce and green onion) and the time it takes to cook (in between working two jobs and taking care of a child). Time is the much more valuable resource as it relates to healthy cooking and eating.
- iamnothere 7y ago
  Food deserts are probably the biggest issue for some low-income people. This is a big problem and obviously needs to be addressed, especially for people who may not have access to transportation. Cooking itself does not have to take that much time. Many recipes can be prepared using rough chopping and only occasional observation/adjustment.
overkill28 7y ago
Seriously, it bugs me when people try to cook and start with a giant, very precise recipe that has you using multiple pans and a laundry list of fresh herbs and spices. That might be fun for a special occasion but it's not a good way to introduce beginners to cooking. Salt, pepper, olive oil. Then go get any vegetables, grains and proteins that you like. Work your way up from there.

sct202 7y ago

It's kind of interesting that they named their book after pressure cookers, which address a lot of the problems of not having working appliances, living in motels, and are relatively affordable compared to a gas utility hookup. Instant Pots and knock-offs are <$50 now and are easy enough to use with just a standard outlet.

chuckgreenman 7y ago

I recently changed how I eat, mostly chicken thighs, stir fry beef, rice and canned / frozen vegetables depending on the deals for the week. Oatmeal for breakfast. Meals are clocking in between $0.90 and $2.50 per serving, It's pretty cheap to eat unprocessed foods, it's just gets kind of repetitive. I feel much better than I did when I was eating processed stuff and my food budget is much smaller.

tchaffee 7y ago
> it's just gets kind of repetitive. Look into herbs and other seasonings, and different cooking methods. Chinese cooking for example makes excellent use of them to make very different dishes from the same raw ingredients. A little bit of soy, Chinese cooking wine, and spring onions added to scrambled eggs is very different from steamed eggs for example.

lqet 7y ago

> First, it takes money. Healthier diets — diets rich in fresh produce and lean proteins — generally cost more. 2.5 kilos of potatoes usually cost between 1-2 EUR here. As a single person, you can live days on this. Compare this to a single frozen pizza, which usually costs the same (1-2 EUR). 2kg of carrots cost 1.99 EUR in my local supermarket, you can get it way cheaper at Aldi. A package of soup vegetables (consisting of 1-2 carrots, an onion, a quarter celery, leek and fresh parsley) is usually below 1 EUR and is (together with a can of tomatoes for 0.39 EUR) enough to form the basis of (for example) a lentil stew (a 500g bad of dried lentils is 2 EUR, you usually only need 100g for a 2 person meal), or a bolognese (add 250g of minced meat), or a potato stew (add the potatoes mentioned above), or... you don't even need the package of vegetable soups, as buying these vegetables in larger amounts for an entire week is even cheaper. Another example: a can of tomatoes (39 cents), some oil and a single onion (1kg of onions is usually around 80 cents) are enough to make a fresh tomato sauce. A 500g bag of pasta (say: Penne) costs 39 cent if you buy the cheap brand. This is enough for 2 people, at under 50 cent per person. Another example: spaghetti aglio e olio. You literally need nothing more than some oil, pepper, spaghetti (39 cent), some garlic (3 bulbs are usually under 1 EUR, so a single clove is maybe 4-5 cent and fresh parsley. You have a very tasty, fresh meal which can be cooked in 10 minutes, again for under 50 cents per person. Another example: fresh bread. You need roughly 250g of flour (500g are around 79 cent), water, salt (which is so cheap I won't even mention it) and dried yeast (under 30 cents). Fresh bread for 2 people, again for under 50 cents per person. Add a fresh cucumber, 1-2 fresh tomatoes, salt, pepper, and you have a tasty evening meal for under 1 EUR per person. I could go on and on. I can get quite agitated if people claim that "cooking fresh" is much more expensive than processed food. I cooked fresh and daily for years as a student, very often for 2 people, on a very limited budget, and 2 EUR per day was usually more than enough. All you need is practice.

minikites 7y ago
>2.5 kilos of potatoes usually cost between 1-2 EUR here. As a single person, you can live days on this. So poor people should live like it's 19th century Ireland? I'm sure that will catch on.
- 7y ago

bluedino 7y ago

>> they ate an average of 508 calories more per day and gained an average of 2 pounds over the two-week period, providing evidence that there may be something about processed food that drives people to overeat and gain weight. Has the author tried eating a caloric excess of lean meats and non-fried, non-starch vegetables? It's damn near impossible. Throw some cheese, bread, fried potatoes, mayo, and sugary drinks in there and you'll do it without blinking an eye. But not with chicken, green beans, and other 'healthy foods'

minikites 7y ago
>lean meats and non-fried, non-starch vegetables That's more difficult than you think: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_desert https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_desert >In 2010, the United States Department of Agriculture (USDA) reported that 23.5 million Americans live in a food desert, meaning that they live more than one mile from a supermarket in urban or suburban areas, and more than 10 miles from a supermarket in rural areas.[7] Food deserts lack whole food providers who supply fresh protein sources (such as poultry, fish and meats) along with whole food such as fresh fruits and vegetables, and instead provide processed and sugar- and fat-laden foods in convenience stores.

Merrill 7y ago

There is hardly anything easier than microwaving a potato and microwaving frozen vegetables, which are just as nutritious as fresh and a lot cheaper on sale. Add a piece of protein fried in a pan and you are done. Rice cookers have also become inexpensive and foolproof to use.

saturdaysaint 7y ago

Healthy meal kits have been great "training wheels" for my wife and I to make less processed meals. Specifically, Hello Fresh meals typically have a major veggie/whole food emphasis. The biggest revelation is that roasting veggies with a little bit of olive oil and a little salt is an almost can't miss crowd pleaser that elevates every meal. Cherry tomatoes, green beans, sweet potatoes, asparagus, whatever. We try to get a roastable item or two every time we stop at a store.

msluyter 7y ago

For our family, time is the problem. I do almost all of the cooking, and -- much like when estimating software development -- often tend to underestimate how long even a fairly simple recipe will take. As I become a more experienced cook I become more efficient, but some nights we still end up eating quite late. Add to that non-trivial time for dishes/cleanup, and indeed, this rings true: The middle-class families in our study had more resources and more options but felt completely overwhelmed by hectic schedules and competing demands that left little time to cook. One strategy is batch cooking in advance on weekends and freezing meals, but for various reasons, we've been fairly poor at that. Incidentally, if you want to get better at cooking, I highly recommend Cook's Illustrated / America's Test Kitchen, in particular, their special edition magazines. They provide recipes but also techniques and the science behind the recipes. This one in particular is a gold mine and is almost falling apart from heavy use: https://shop.americastestkitchen.com/special-issues/cook-s-illustrated-skillet-dinners-special-collector-s-edition.html https://shop.americastestkitchen.com/special-issues/cook-s-i...

AstralStorm 7y ago

Bah. Hard thing to avoid is processed meat, as cooking meat right takes a tiny bit of skill and gear. Anything else, unimportant, super easy to make and generally available, except in literal food deserts. "Pot roast?! Who do you think we are, MILLIONAIRES?" The worst part is probably peeling. That takes serious effort. Then washing dishes. Then obviously shopping which has to be batched or mail in for efficiency. If you're rich enough, there are a whole range of ways to save time, from dishwashers, bigger selection of dishes, timers on hardware, through buying peeled or lightly prepared food such as frozen (not exactly ready to eat, that's expensive and uncontrollable) through mail shopping or hiring someone to shop for you. Finally, outsourcing cooking completely to someone competent, the most expensive way.