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> Low-orbit satellite broadband potentially breaks this dilemma. ... Starlink and OneWeb could potentially offer a satellite broadband product that is competiti

> Low-orbit satellite broadband potentially breaks this dilemma. ... Starlink and OneWeb could potentially offer a satellite broadband product that is competitive with fixed-line broadband on cost, latency and bandwidth. But it doesn't, despite the marketing of Starlink as a "broadband" network they simply can't service high population density areas. So it might be a backbone to a 4G tower and possibly usable by consumers in rural areas, but it won't be installed on the roof of a car nor offer connectivity to individual consumers in urban regions.

newaccoutnas 7y ago
> but it won't be installed on the roof of a car How come?
- indolering 7y ago
  Because it won't work in high-density urban areas.
- LeonM 7y ago
  It won't be a reliable connection because the car moves around. Stuff like trees, tall building, bridges and tunnels will disrupt the signal. So for cars, a ground based cellular connection will work more reliable. Antenna alignment could also be a factor, which becomes more difficult if the antenna is attached to a moving object.
  - skykooler 7y ago
    The antenna has to constantly realign anyway due to how fast the satellites in low earth orbit move. Given that they're using phased array antennas, which can be steered electronically nearly instantaneously, there should be no issue tracking a satellite from a moving vehicle.
  - SEJeff 7y ago
    As mentioned earlier by dsr_, at 340km, a 1.5 degree beam covers a circle of just under 9km diameter. Let's call it 50 square km. If a single satellite can cover a 9km diameter, I think it will be just fine for vehicles. Especially so as the idea is for overlapping satellites. Also, much of the starlink bandwidth will be used for extra cellular / wireless / internet backbone areas. Areas that need long haul fiber optics to have bandwidth suddenly won't, so it will actually improve existing internet service providers as well since their addressable market will increase.
jdietrich 7y ago
SpaceX are planning on launching a lot of satellites - 2800 Ku/Ka-band satellites at 1150km and 7500 V-band satellites at 340km. Both will be capable of steering a 1.5 degree spot beam. I'm not saying that you're definitely wrong, but Starlink is designed to provide a truly phenomenal amount of throughput. The V-band VLEO constellation is clearly intended to serve urban areas. https://licensing.fcc.gov/myibfs/download.do?attachment_key=1190019 https://licensing.fcc.gov/myibfs/download.do?attachment_key=...
- dsr_ 7y ago
  At 340Km, a 1.5 degree beam covers a circle of just under 9Km diameter. Let's call it 50 square Km. Population density in Boston is over 5000/sqKm, so 250,000 people have to share that satellite. If 10% are subscribers and they use it 10% of the time, that's 2500 simultaneous users. Starlink has claimed 20Gb/s per satellite, which gives 1 Gb/s per 125 simultaneous users in this high-density area. That's not great, but it's also not awful. In any less population-dense area, it can be reasonably competitive, especially as the end-user deployment model is expected to be "here's a pizza-box sized antenna: make sure it's pointed in this general direction of the sky, and give it power and ethernet."
  - tiernano 7y ago
    > which gives 1 Gb/s per 125 simultaneous users in this high-density area. That's not great, but it's also not awful. thats per satellite... wouldnt you, in theory, have access to multiple satellites? i though the theory was overlap, etc...
    - SEJeff 7y ago
      Yes. I seem to recall either Elon or more likely Gwynne Shotwell saying they're shooting for three or more satellites in view for the system to truly work the way it has been designed.
      - earenndil 7y ago
        3 satellites makes for 24 mb/s per person. Except—I think it's actually 20 Gbps per satellite, so 24 mbps per person, so really only 3 mb/s, which is...usable, but slow.

newaccoutnas 7y ago

> but it won't be installed on the roof of a car How come?

indolering 7y ago
Because it won't work in high-density urban areas.
LeonM 7y ago
It won't be a reliable connection because the car moves around. Stuff like trees, tall building, bridges and tunnels will disrupt the signal. So for cars, a ground based cellular connection will work more reliable. Antenna alignment could also be a factor, which becomes more difficult if the antenna is attached to a moving object.
- skykooler 7y ago
  The antenna has to constantly realign anyway due to how fast the satellites in low earth orbit move. Given that they're using phased array antennas, which can be steered electronically nearly instantaneously, there should be no issue tracking a satellite from a moving vehicle.
- SEJeff 7y ago
  As mentioned earlier by dsr_, at 340km, a 1.5 degree beam covers a circle of just under 9km diameter. Let's call it 50 square km. If a single satellite can cover a 9km diameter, I think it will be just fine for vehicles. Especially so as the idea is for overlapping satellites. Also, much of the starlink bandwidth will be used for extra cellular / wireless / internet backbone areas. Areas that need long haul fiber optics to have bandwidth suddenly won't, so it will actually improve existing internet service providers as well since their addressable market will increase.

jdietrich 7y ago

SpaceX are planning on launching a lot of satellites - 2800 Ku/Ka-band satellites at 1150km and 7500 V-band satellites at 340km. Both will be capable of steering a 1.5 degree spot beam. I'm not saying that you're definitely wrong, but Starlink is designed to provide a truly phenomenal amount of throughput. The V-band VLEO constellation is clearly intended to serve urban areas. https://licensing.fcc.gov/myibfs/download.do?attachment_key=1190019 https://licensing.fcc.gov/myibfs/download.do?attachment_key=...

dsr_ 7y ago
At 340Km, a 1.5 degree beam covers a circle of just under 9Km diameter. Let's call it 50 square Km. Population density in Boston is over 5000/sqKm, so 250,000 people have to share that satellite. If 10% are subscribers and they use it 10% of the time, that's 2500 simultaneous users. Starlink has claimed 20Gb/s per satellite, which gives 1 Gb/s per 125 simultaneous users in this high-density area. That's not great, but it's also not awful. In any less population-dense area, it can be reasonably competitive, especially as the end-user deployment model is expected to be "here's a pizza-box sized antenna: make sure it's pointed in this general direction of the sky, and give it power and ethernet."
- tiernano 7y ago
  > which gives 1 Gb/s per 125 simultaneous users in this high-density area. That's not great, but it's also not awful. thats per satellite... wouldnt you, in theory, have access to multiple satellites? i though the theory was overlap, etc...
  - SEJeff 7y ago
    Yes. I seem to recall either Elon or more likely Gwynne Shotwell saying they're shooting for three or more satellites in view for the system to truly work the way it has been designed.
    - earenndil 7y ago
      3 satellites makes for 24 mb/s per person. Except—I think it's actually 20 Gbps per satellite, so 24 mbps per person, so really only 3 mb/s, which is...usable, but slow.