32 ms·

> music stars to earn their money in the concerts they sold out due to "piracy" and not from selling CDs this is not entirely true; musicians also earn a signi

by rlue 7y ago

> music stars to earn their money in the concerts they sold out due to "piracy" and not from selling CDs this is not entirely true; musicians also earn a significant amount of money based on how many times their songs are played on streaming services like Spotify. Hasan Minhaj had a bit about this in Patriot Act, explaining that this is the reason artists like Li'l Pump are releasing albums with dozens of two-minute songs—shorter tracks means more plays means more $$. What this means, and what trips me out about using Spotify (or even YouTube), is that I literally can't listen to music on their platform without putting money in someone's pocket. Great for artists I love, sad for cultural curiosities I want to understand but decidedly don't want to support, like Li'l Pump or Chris Brown.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
lostjohnny 7y ago
You don't need to make a ton of money to live of your music. make 60k/year in concerts and you'll live without problems in a country like Italy. It looks like a lot, but it means 150 shows/year at around 400 euros each + expenses (mainly gas, road tolls, some lunch on the road - sleeping, eating and drinking are provided by the promoter or the venue). I've worked with bands that played more than 200 shows/year that earned around 5k + merchandise per show. They payed me 100 bucks per gig, just to sell their merchandise. Provided it becomes a real job and you have to work hard to keep it going, it's totally doable.
- soulofmischief 7y ago
  What kind of experience do you have working with bands gigging at 100-200 shows a year? Just merchandising? This is a market I'm very interested in.
  - lostjohnny 7y ago
    Thanks for asking! This is a funny topic for me, I've always been a super music fan, but never played any instrument. I've been more a "roadie" than just a merchandiser, I mean that I was with them all the time, loading, unloading, driving and helping out. Sometimes I've also acted as tour manager, but only in venues we already knew. Most of the largest shows have been with an Italian band throughout Italy, production was in the medium range, going between a few hundreds to thousands of people (less than 5 thousands). Many of the smaller ones were in Europe, with american bands, where it usually was in the hundreds in undeground clubs - there 's a large variety of them in Europe, you can find the youth center in Switzerland that has hotel's level accomodations and the squat in east Germany where you sleep on the floor in the cold. But it's a good network to get a lot of shows close to each other, so you don't have to drive much and everyone is kind. We've also been playing to many festivals: from desert fest to duna jam, from freak valley to roadburn, from up in smoke to hellfest. It's another great way to make connections and meet the bands. I'm especially fond of what's called stoner rock (I prefer the name desert rock though) and I've toured a lot with bands from the Rome based Heavy Psych Sounds label. I've been doing it for about 5 years, then the main band I was following took a sabbatical and I went back into tech as a programmer (my day to day job since 1997) It's been the best part of my life, and, as crazy it might sound, the time of my life when I saved the most: I didn't have to pay for food, drinks, traveling or going to concerts, which basically is where most of my finances went anyway... I had to pay the mortgage on my house, but if I was renting, I could have saved on that as well. Best and worst memory is opening to Eagles of Death Metal in Milan, where I've spent the night smoking pot with Dave Catching, founder of Rancho de La Luna and one of my heroes. I've also shared the merch booth with Nic, their merchandiser, that few days later was tragically killed in the Bataclan massacre. TL;DR: I got to do it as a job just by answering "yes" to "we need a driver for this one date, are you interested?". I've been reliable so they kept calling me and I ended up being part of the crew, without even noticing.
    - soulofmischief 7y ago
      I like some stoner metal. Really fond of Sleep. I'll check out Heavy Psych Sounds. And a night with Dave Catching sounds rad. I don't know how that could be a worst memory. Is your estimate of ~150 annual shows being enough for a comfortable lifestyle meant to generally apply to overseas shows for American bands, or do you think the payout is more or less on par with ~150 domestic shows?
      - lostjohnny 7y ago
        Sorry, I've haven't been clear, the worst was knowing a guy that a few days later was killed while working at Bataclan in Paris. Many bands I know come here touring for at least a month, and when they're away rent their apartments or rooms back home because life here in Europe is cheaper, especially when touring, especially south or east. Some of them moved here, to Berlin or Barcelona, some even moved here in Italy, I know of a band that moved in Sicily, on the Ortigia peninsula in Syracuse. Depending on the cachet, 150 shows are enough to make a living and generally an overseas band have that exotic vibe that brings more people to the shows. I can't make a comparison with the same number of shows in US, I've never toured that much in the States, but according to what bands said to me, touring US is harder, you have to drive a lot more and accommodations are usually worse (no food or drinks, sleep on a floor or in the van, hundreds of miles before reaching the next city) while Europe is easier. if you plan your tours carefully and make the right connection, there's a good number of clubs that can guarantee packed shows and/or just a place to play and sleep on slow work days. For stoner Germany, Sweden and somewhat Switzerland (they offer more than the average, be aware there's still customs in and out) are the best places in continental Europe. A good way to do it is contact an european band or label and ask for advices. There are services that rent you the van for cheap directly in the airport, a good place is Belgium because it's exactly in the middle of EU, or they can provide you a communication channel with venues and/or services that rent backlines and stuff. Last, but not least: be very careful with the gear, there have been numerous cases of stolen backlines, it would completely ruin the hard work (and the fun) you were putting in the tour.
soulofmischief 7y ago
The reason for short songs also applies to other services like YouTube. Spotify is different however in that the cut artists get out of their streaming revenue is very insignificant compared to the slice that their record labels and Spotify are getting. I think it's important to keep this in mind. Spotify is negative force in the industry. > sad for cultural curiosities I want to understand but decidedly don't want to support, like Li'l Pump or Chris Brown. I don't think you should be concerned over the fraction of a cent you helped generate for Lil Pump.
tripzilch 7y ago
it's not a "significant amount of money" for any artist except a very very VERY tiny minority of popular ones. the (overwhelmingly) vast majority of artists on Spotify see pennies. you can be certain that you're not supporting anyone that kinda needs the money.

by rlue 7y ago

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

lostjohnny 7y ago

You don't need to make a ton of money to live of your music. make 60k/year in concerts and you'll live without problems in a country like Italy. It looks like a lot, but it means 150 shows/year at around 400 euros each + expenses (mainly gas, road tolls, some lunch on the road - sleeping, eating and drinking are provided by the promoter or the venue). I've worked with bands that played more than 200 shows/year that earned around 5k + merchandise per show. They payed me 100 bucks per gig, just to sell their merchandise. Provided it becomes a real job and you have to work hard to keep it going, it's totally doable.

soulofmischief 7y ago
What kind of experience do you have working with bands gigging at 100-200 shows a year? Just merchandising? This is a market I'm very interested in.
- lostjohnny 7y ago
  Thanks for asking! This is a funny topic for me, I've always been a super music fan, but never played any instrument. I've been more a "roadie" than just a merchandiser, I mean that I was with them all the time, loading, unloading, driving and helping out. Sometimes I've also acted as tour manager, but only in venues we already knew. Most of the largest shows have been with an Italian band throughout Italy, production was in the medium range, going between a few hundreds to thousands of people (less than 5 thousands). Many of the smaller ones were in Europe, with american bands, where it usually was in the hundreds in undeground clubs - there 's a large variety of them in Europe, you can find the youth center in Switzerland that has hotel's level accomodations and the squat in east Germany where you sleep on the floor in the cold. But it's a good network to get a lot of shows close to each other, so you don't have to drive much and everyone is kind. We've also been playing to many festivals: from desert fest to duna jam, from freak valley to roadburn, from up in smoke to hellfest. It's another great way to make connections and meet the bands. I'm especially fond of what's called stoner rock (I prefer the name desert rock though) and I've toured a lot with bands from the Rome based Heavy Psych Sounds label. I've been doing it for about 5 years, then the main band I was following took a sabbatical and I went back into tech as a programmer (my day to day job since 1997) It's been the best part of my life, and, as crazy it might sound, the time of my life when I saved the most: I didn't have to pay for food, drinks, traveling or going to concerts, which basically is where most of my finances went anyway... I had to pay the mortgage on my house, but if I was renting, I could have saved on that as well. Best and worst memory is opening to Eagles of Death Metal in Milan, where I've spent the night smoking pot with Dave Catching, founder of Rancho de La Luna and one of my heroes. I've also shared the merch booth with Nic, their merchandiser, that few days later was tragically killed in the Bataclan massacre. TL;DR: I got to do it as a job just by answering "yes" to "we need a driver for this one date, are you interested?". I've been reliable so they kept calling me and I ended up being part of the crew, without even noticing.
  - soulofmischief 7y ago
    I like some stoner metal. Really fond of Sleep. I'll check out Heavy Psych Sounds. And a night with Dave Catching sounds rad. I don't know how that could be a worst memory. Is your estimate of ~150 annual shows being enough for a comfortable lifestyle meant to generally apply to overseas shows for American bands, or do you think the payout is more or less on par with ~150 domestic shows?
    - lostjohnny 7y ago
      Sorry, I've haven't been clear, the worst was knowing a guy that a few days later was killed while working at Bataclan in Paris. Many bands I know come here touring for at least a month, and when they're away rent their apartments or rooms back home because life here in Europe is cheaper, especially when touring, especially south or east. Some of them moved here, to Berlin or Barcelona, some even moved here in Italy, I know of a band that moved in Sicily, on the Ortigia peninsula in Syracuse. Depending on the cachet, 150 shows are enough to make a living and generally an overseas band have that exotic vibe that brings more people to the shows. I can't make a comparison with the same number of shows in US, I've never toured that much in the States, but according to what bands said to me, touring US is harder, you have to drive a lot more and accommodations are usually worse (no food or drinks, sleep on a floor or in the van, hundreds of miles before reaching the next city) while Europe is easier. if you plan your tours carefully and make the right connection, there's a good number of clubs that can guarantee packed shows and/or just a place to play and sleep on slow work days. For stoner Germany, Sweden and somewhat Switzerland (they offer more than the average, be aware there's still customs in and out) are the best places in continental Europe. A good way to do it is contact an european band or label and ask for advices. There are services that rent you the van for cheap directly in the airport, a good place is Belgium because it's exactly in the middle of EU, or they can provide you a communication channel with venues and/or services that rent backlines and stuff. Last, but not least: be very careful with the gear, there have been numerous cases of stolen backlines, it would completely ruin the hard work (and the fun) you were putting in the tour.

soulofmischief 7y ago

The reason for short songs also applies to other services like YouTube. Spotify is different however in that the cut artists get out of their streaming revenue is very insignificant compared to the slice that their record labels and Spotify are getting. I think it's important to keep this in mind. Spotify is negative force in the industry. > sad for cultural curiosities I want to understand but decidedly don't want to support, like Li'l Pump or Chris Brown. I don't think you should be concerned over the fraction of a cent you helped generate for Lil Pump.

tripzilch 7y ago

it's not a "significant amount of money" for any artist except a very very VERY tiny minority of popular ones. the (overwhelmingly) vast majority of artists on Spotify see pennies. you can be certain that you're not supporting anyone that kinda needs the money.