4 ms·

3D-printed guns are back, and this time they are unstoppable

10 points by cinquemb 7y ago

didibus 7y ago
Putting aside any discussion about whether it should or should not be allowed. The article claims the sharing of the 3D prints can't be stopped. But I find that untrue. Wouldn't similar means as taken for child pornography be able to block the distribution in a similar way? Maybe you couldn't stop it completely, like child porn still finds its way out, but it could be made much more difficult to share. I don't see anything particularly more difficult related to the fact they are CAD models. Maybe identifying a gun model from non gun CAD models would prove more challenging then for images?
- kwhitefoot 7y ago
  If anyone wanted to send a file they could write it to a CD, DVD, or USB stick and post it. They can leave it at a dead letter drop, under a bench in the park. One can even print it on paper as bar codes or similar and send it in the post so that simple external inspection would not reveal that it was not just an ordinary letter.
- LyndsySimon 7y ago
  Objectively, there is a much smaller demand for things like child porn than DIY firearms. For instance - here's a thread on a popular firearms forum that I frequent that goes into great detail on how to cast an AR-15 lower receiver (the serialized, controlled part) using Legos and silicone as a mold: https://www.ar15.com/forums/ar-15/Fruity_Ghost___DIY_100s_of_ARs_cheaper__faster__gentler_/4-676733/ https://www.ar15.com/forums/ar-15/Fruity_Ghost___DIY_100s_of...? Note that that thread is three years old and has eight hundred replies, many of which are people making their own for fun.
- CaptainZapp 7y ago
  It's possible to put in major obstacles for scanning and image processing of bank notes.[1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EURion_constellation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EURion_constellation
- Fjolsvith 7y ago
  In the US, creating and sharing an image of a gun part would never meet the same level of harm criteria of creating and sharing an image of child pornography, thus allowing 1st amendment protection.
  - didibus 7y ago
    I was more interested in the technical side. Since I felt the article was claiming it couldn't be blocked due to its decentralized nature. Though maybe I misread, and they meant it couldn't be stopped in the legal sense.
whamlastxmas 7y ago
3D printed guns are a stupid debate. A couple dollars worth of pipe at any hardware store can be made into a zip gun that fires shotgun shells and it would be tremendously more effective and reliable than anything 3D printed
- shiftpgdn 7y ago
  You are tremendously underestimating how far 3d printed guns have come in the last year or two. In specific the Glock lowers are good for hundreds of rounds (vs having to load a shell at a time like a zip gun) and are just as accurate and useful as the real thing.
  - Pinckney 7y ago
    Electrochemical machining also looks like a promising way to rifle barrels at home without specialized equipment, and can in theory be assembled with other 3d printed components.
  - LyndsySimon 7y ago
    I think you might be underestimating what a "zip gun" can be. Yeah, a "bang stick" is a couple of pieces of metal pipe with a nail for a firing pin. It works once with a 12ga shotgun shell - but a Sten SMG can be made from the same sort of materials, and is an effective SMG. They cost about $10 each to make in 1942. Plans are dead simple to find: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=sten+plans&ia=images&iax=images https://duckduckgo.com/?q=sten+plans&ia=images&iax=images Here's a thread on another forum where a guy builds an AK receiver (which is much more difficult to get right) from a shovel: https://www.northeastshooters.com/xen/threads/diy-shovel-ak-photo-tsunami-warning.179192/ https://www.northeastshooters.com/xen/threads/diy-shovel-ak-... Check out this 9mm machine pistol, produced by R9 Arms: https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2015/08/11/mystery-9mm-machine-pistol-seized-europe/ https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2015/08/11/mystery-9mm-m... There's one problem with that - there is no such company as "R9 Arms". These things have been showing up all over Europe for the past few years, and they're definitely a "professional" product... made by a company that doesn't exist. The best guess is that they're being made somewhere in Croatia, but to my knowledge that's based only on the fact that several were seized there shortly after they appeared. The fact is, it's easy to make a firearm. It's actually easier to make a full-auto firearm than it is to make a semi-auto - a semi-auto is effectively a full-auto with an extra design step to include a disconnector that prevents it from continuing to fire.

10 points by cinquemb 7y ago

Putting aside any discussion about whether it should or should not be allowed. The article claims the sharing of the 3D prints can't be stopped. But I find that untrue. Wouldn't similar means as taken for child pornography be able to block the distribution in a similar way? Maybe you couldn't stop it completely, like child porn still finds its way out, but it could be made much more difficult to share. I don't see anything particularly more difficult related to the fact they are CAD models. Maybe identifying a gun model from non gun CAD models would prove more challenging then for images?

kwhitefoot 7y ago
If anyone wanted to send a file they could write it to a CD, DVD, or USB stick and post it. They can leave it at a dead letter drop, under a bench in the park. One can even print it on paper as bar codes or similar and send it in the post so that simple external inspection would not reveal that it was not just an ordinary letter.
LyndsySimon 7y ago
Objectively, there is a much smaller demand for things like child porn than DIY firearms. For instance - here's a thread on a popular firearms forum that I frequent that goes into great detail on how to cast an AR-15 lower receiver (the serialized, controlled part) using Legos and silicone as a mold: https://www.ar15.com/forums/ar-15/Fruity_Ghost___DIY_100s_of_ARs_cheaper__faster__gentler_/4-676733/ https://www.ar15.com/forums/ar-15/Fruity_Ghost___DIY_100s_of...? Note that that thread is three years old and has eight hundred replies, many of which are people making their own for fun.
CaptainZapp 7y ago
It's possible to put in major obstacles for scanning and image processing of bank notes.[1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EURion_constellation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EURion_constellation
Fjolsvith 7y ago
In the US, creating and sharing an image of a gun part would never meet the same level of harm criteria of creating and sharing an image of child pornography, thus allowing 1st amendment protection.
- didibus 7y ago
  I was more interested in the technical side. Since I felt the article was claiming it couldn't be blocked due to its decentralized nature. Though maybe I misread, and they meant it couldn't be stopped in the legal sense.

whamlastxmas 7y ago

3D printed guns are a stupid debate. A couple dollars worth of pipe at any hardware store can be made into a zip gun that fires shotgun shells and it would be tremendously more effective and reliable than anything 3D printed

shiftpgdn 7y ago
You are tremendously underestimating how far 3d printed guns have come in the last year or two. In specific the Glock lowers are good for hundreds of rounds (vs having to load a shell at a time like a zip gun) and are just as accurate and useful as the real thing.
- Pinckney 7y ago
  Electrochemical machining also looks like a promising way to rifle barrels at home without specialized equipment, and can in theory be assembled with other 3d printed components.
- LyndsySimon 7y ago
  I think you might be underestimating what a "zip gun" can be. Yeah, a "bang stick" is a couple of pieces of metal pipe with a nail for a firing pin. It works once with a 12ga shotgun shell - but a Sten SMG can be made from the same sort of materials, and is an effective SMG. They cost about $10 each to make in 1942. Plans are dead simple to find: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=sten+plans&ia=images&iax=images https://duckduckgo.com/?q=sten+plans&ia=images&iax=images Here's a thread on another forum where a guy builds an AK receiver (which is much more difficult to get right) from a shovel: https://www.northeastshooters.com/xen/threads/diy-shovel-ak-photo-tsunami-warning.179192/ https://www.northeastshooters.com/xen/threads/diy-shovel-ak-... Check out this 9mm machine pistol, produced by R9 Arms: https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2015/08/11/mystery-9mm-machine-pistol-seized-europe/ https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2015/08/11/mystery-9mm-m... There's one problem with that - there is no such company as "R9 Arms". These things have been showing up all over Europe for the past few years, and they're definitely a "professional" product... made by a company that doesn't exist. The best guess is that they're being made somewhere in Croatia, but to my knowledge that's based only on the fact that several were seized there shortly after they appeared. The fact is, it's easy to make a firearm. It's actually easier to make a full-auto firearm than it is to make a semi-auto - a semi-auto is effectively a full-auto with an extra design step to include a disconnector that prevents it from continuing to fire.