9 ms·

It is overdue but it's being prosecuted under a flawed understanding of almost all aspects of the situation and inane and unfocused policy. You tackle China fi

It is overdue but it's being prosecuted under a flawed understanding of almost all aspects of the situation and inane and unfocused policy. You tackle China first while building an economic coalition of interests with shared goals. A sane and competent person would focus on one task at a time and not undercut the strategic interests required to achieve that task, achieving perhaps effectively nothing.

jdhn 7y ago
This is my biggest complaint with Trump's tactics as well. If he didn't view EVERYTHING as a zero sum game, he and whatever coalition he could assemble would be much more credible when it comes to tariffs and threats. It's a shame that TPP wasn't passed because it would've really helped here.
- inflatableDodo 7y ago
  >If he didn't view EVERYTHING as a zero sum game, he and whatever coalition he could assemble would be much more credible when it comes to tariffs and threats. Thank fuck he does, quite frankly. We all dodged a bullet there.
  - threeseed 7y ago
    This isn't a children's playground. There could've been a targeted dispute over IP. But instead what has happened is that a range of tariffs are involved which has resulted in Trump just giving $16 billion to farmers. Some of whom are now planting crops with no intention to sell but purely to get money from the US government.
    - inflatableDodo 7y ago
      >This isn't a children's playground. It shouldn't be, but it currently is. Over here in the UK we will probably end up with Boris 'fuck business' Johnson in power by the end of next week or so, just to complete the shitshow triumvirate that has heralded the swansong of the Conservative party. The only silver lining I can see of the present political zeitgiest, is that Marx was being extremely perceptive when he said that history repeats itself twice. We are currently deep into the farce stage with no signs of slowing. If any of these folks were in any way competent, we would be in real trouble.
      - herplederple 7y ago
        Fuck Marx lol.
        inflatableDodo 7y ago
        Not many.
    - jonhendry18 7y ago
      In fact, borrowing $16 billion from China to give it to farmers hurt by tariffs against China.
      - RhodesianHunter 7y ago
        Most of our borrowing we do from ourselves, so technically only some fraction of that came from China. But yeah, your point is still a good one.
        inflatableDodo 7y ago
        Out of interest, could you share the context for why you chose your username?
        RhodesianHunter 7y ago
        https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhodesian_Ridgeback https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhodesian_Ridgeback
        inflatableDodo 7y ago
        Ahh, was just checking my assumptions. I have members of my family who still complain about having to call Zimbabwe Zimbabwe and who have old SA flags from the '70's, despite them not being from Africa, if you catch my drift, so I was not so subtly digging. For reference, I find it about as disconcerting as if someone decided to call themselves 'ConstantinopleKnight', or similar. If my uncle called himself 'RhodesianHunter' online, he would definitely not be referencing the dog breed.
        RhodesianHunter 7y ago
        I've used this username in various forms pretty much since usernames were a thing. It's only in the past couple of years that people have started asking me about it in this context. Is there a reason as far as you know that the history of Rhodesia has suddenly become more interesting to people with no real connection? I'm sadly going to have to pick something else next time around.
- vokep 7y ago
  How would TPP have helped?
  - jonhendry18 7y ago
    The whole point of TPP was to strengthen trade links between Asia/Pacific nations except China. Which would have helped strengthen TPP member defenses against trade moves by China.
    - jimclegg 7y ago
      Good luck isolating China from its Asian neighbors, I expect that plan will backfire spectacularly.
      - jonhendry18 7y ago
        Well, everyone else involved in drafting the TPP is still in it. So China's Asian neighbors must see some value in it. Only the US dropped out.
  - ebog 7y ago
    Having a multinational agreement between several economies that the Chinese economy is hugely dependent on would have been a great trade chip for getting China on board with Western IP laws. That was the whole point of the deal in the first place.
Wowfunhappy 7y ago
I agree. I don't think I actually have an issue with the trade war, but I have lots wrong with how the current administration is going about it, and I don't have any faith in their ability to extract a positive outcome from China.
- inflatableDodo 7y ago
  Reminds me of the Bill Hicks joke about being 'for the war, but against the troops'. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_whePVoqOY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_whePVoqOY
- gscott 7y ago
  China says it is their national right to hack and copy... No US President sane or not will be able to overcome that.
  - jimclegg 7y ago
    Its major competitors spent 2 centuries actively attacking & sabotaging it (a fact that the US population doesn't seem aware of), seems fair.
    - gscott 7y ago
      There must be a difference between stealing the formula to gun powder vs. downloading the software and engineering for a F-35 plane.
abtinf 7y ago
I read your comment once thinking it said something, but I couldn't remember what. So then I read it again, and again, then suddenly realized you didn't actually say anything at all. You could replace the single word "China" with just about anything and it would carry the same semantic weight. > It is overdue but it's being prosecuted under a flawed understanding of almost all aspects of the situation and inane and unfocused policy. What is the understanding, who understands it, and why is their understanding flawed? What is the policy? Why is the policy inane and unfocused? What is the correct understanding and what would be the substantive and focused policy? > You tackle China first while building an economic coalition of interests with shared goals. Which aspect of China should be tackled--just IP or something else? Who should be part of the coalition? Or do you mean with other nations? Which goals are shared? Why are those the goals? How are those goals different from the goals held by those who have a flawed understanding, or do they share the same goals? > A sane and competent person would focus on one task at a time and not undercut the strategic interests required to achieve that task, achieving perhaps effectively nothing. Who is insane and incompetent person to which you seek to draw a contrast? What is it about their position that leads to the evaluation they are mentally deranged or incompetent? What are the multiple tasks they are focused on? Which one particular task should they focus on? Why is it necessary to focus on one task? Are they the correct tasks? What are the strategic interests? Who holds those strategic interests? Are they they the correct strategic interests? Why are they undercutting those strategic interests? How do those strategy-level issues affect the implementation-level tasks? What would be achieved if their tasks and strategies were aligned?
- kryogen1c 7y ago
  As someone who is often guilty of making vague statements, I appreciate this comment.
- RhodesianHunter 7y ago
  Just because the comment assumes a great deal of contextual knowledge does not mean that it "says nothing". Your response on the other hand... Answering all of your posed questions would take quite a bit of typing and is probably better suited to a blog post, of which I'm sure there are many you could Google. I'm not sure why you bothered to respond?

jdhn 7y ago

This is my biggest complaint with Trump's tactics as well. If he didn't view EVERYTHING as a zero sum game, he and whatever coalition he could assemble would be much more credible when it comes to tariffs and threats. It's a shame that TPP wasn't passed because it would've really helped here.

inflatableDodo 7y ago
>If he didn't view EVERYTHING as a zero sum game, he and whatever coalition he could assemble would be much more credible when it comes to tariffs and threats. Thank fuck he does, quite frankly. We all dodged a bullet there.
- threeseed 7y ago
  This isn't a children's playground. There could've been a targeted dispute over IP. But instead what has happened is that a range of tariffs are involved which has resulted in Trump just giving $16 billion to farmers. Some of whom are now planting crops with no intention to sell but purely to get money from the US government.
  - inflatableDodo 7y ago
    >This isn't a children's playground. It shouldn't be, but it currently is. Over here in the UK we will probably end up with Boris 'fuck business' Johnson in power by the end of next week or so, just to complete the shitshow triumvirate that has heralded the swansong of the Conservative party. The only silver lining I can see of the present political zeitgiest, is that Marx was being extremely perceptive when he said that history repeats itself twice. We are currently deep into the farce stage with no signs of slowing. If any of these folks were in any way competent, we would be in real trouble.
    - herplederple 7y ago
      Fuck Marx lol.
      - inflatableDodo 7y ago
        Not many.
  - jonhendry18 7y ago
    In fact, borrowing $16 billion from China to give it to farmers hurt by tariffs against China.
    - RhodesianHunter 7y ago
      Most of our borrowing we do from ourselves, so technically only some fraction of that came from China. But yeah, your point is still a good one.
      - inflatableDodo 7y ago
        Out of interest, could you share the context for why you chose your username?
        RhodesianHunter 7y ago
        https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhodesian_Ridgeback https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhodesian_Ridgeback
        inflatableDodo 7y ago
        Ahh, was just checking my assumptions. I have members of my family who still complain about having to call Zimbabwe Zimbabwe and who have old SA flags from the '70's, despite them not being from Africa, if you catch my drift, so I was not so subtly digging. For reference, I find it about as disconcerting as if someone decided to call themselves 'ConstantinopleKnight', or similar. If my uncle called himself 'RhodesianHunter' online, he would definitely not be referencing the dog breed.
        RhodesianHunter 7y ago
        I've used this username in various forms pretty much since usernames were a thing. It's only in the past couple of years that people have started asking me about it in this context. Is there a reason as far as you know that the history of Rhodesia has suddenly become more interesting to people with no real connection? I'm sadly going to have to pick something else next time around.
vokep 7y ago
How would TPP have helped?
- jonhendry18 7y ago
  The whole point of TPP was to strengthen trade links between Asia/Pacific nations except China. Which would have helped strengthen TPP member defenses against trade moves by China.
  - jimclegg 7y ago
    Good luck isolating China from its Asian neighbors, I expect that plan will backfire spectacularly.
    - jonhendry18 7y ago
      Well, everyone else involved in drafting the TPP is still in it. So China's Asian neighbors must see some value in it. Only the US dropped out.
- ebog 7y ago
  Having a multinational agreement between several economies that the Chinese economy is hugely dependent on would have been a great trade chip for getting China on board with Western IP laws. That was the whole point of the deal in the first place.

Wowfunhappy 7y ago

I agree. I don't think I actually have an issue with the trade war, but I have lots wrong with how the current administration is going about it, and I don't have any faith in their ability to extract a positive outcome from China.

inflatableDodo 7y ago
Reminds me of the Bill Hicks joke about being 'for the war, but against the troops'. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_whePVoqOY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_whePVoqOY
gscott 7y ago
China says it is their national right to hack and copy... No US President sane or not will be able to overcome that.
- jimclegg 7y ago
  Its major competitors spent 2 centuries actively attacking & sabotaging it (a fact that the US population doesn't seem aware of), seems fair.
  - gscott 7y ago
    There must be a difference between stealing the formula to gun powder vs. downloading the software and engineering for a F-35 plane.

abtinf 7y ago

I read your comment once thinking it said something, but I couldn't remember what. So then I read it again, and again, then suddenly realized you didn't actually say anything at all. You could replace the single word "China" with just about anything and it would carry the same semantic weight. > It is overdue but it's being prosecuted under a flawed understanding of almost all aspects of the situation and inane and unfocused policy. What is the understanding, who understands it, and why is their understanding flawed? What is the policy? Why is the policy inane and unfocused? What is the correct understanding and what would be the substantive and focused policy? > You tackle China first while building an economic coalition of interests with shared goals. Which aspect of China should be tackled--just IP or something else? Who should be part of the coalition? Or do you mean with other nations? Which goals are shared? Why are those the goals? How are those goals different from the goals held by those who have a flawed understanding, or do they share the same goals? > A sane and competent person would focus on one task at a time and not undercut the strategic interests required to achieve that task, achieving perhaps effectively nothing. Who is insane and incompetent person to which you seek to draw a contrast? What is it about their position that leads to the evaluation they are mentally deranged or incompetent? What are the multiple tasks they are focused on? Which one particular task should they focus on? Why is it necessary to focus on one task? Are they the correct tasks? What are the strategic interests? Who holds those strategic interests? Are they they the correct strategic interests? Why are they undercutting those strategic interests? How do those strategy-level issues affect the implementation-level tasks? What would be achieved if their tasks and strategies were aligned?

kryogen1c 7y ago
As someone who is often guilty of making vague statements, I appreciate this comment.
RhodesianHunter 7y ago
Just because the comment assumes a great deal of contextual knowledge does not mean that it "says nothing". Your response on the other hand... Answering all of your posed questions would take quite a bit of typing and is probably better suited to a blog post, of which I'm sure there are many you could Google. I'm not sure why you bothered to respond?