3 ms·

Exactly right. I can give you a perfect example from a project I'm working on: http://openinsulin.org/ http://openinsulin.org/ We're working to make medicine m

Exactly right. I can give you a perfect example from a project I'm working on: http://openinsulin.org/ http://openinsulin.org/ We're working to make medicine more affordable, focusing on insulin in particular. Insulin has been around for decades, it's easy to make. Technology has been improving, things should be getting cheaper. Instead, insulin continues to rise [1]. People with diabetes need this stuff, if they don't have it they'll literally drop dead. The left wing "solution" to this problem is to force taxpayers to subsidize it, and perhaps impose price controls. The right wing "solution" is to puke some cookie cutter line about the "free market" and America's incredible "innovation" in drug development, exposing his skin-deep understanding of what those terms mean. (Later, he'll throw a fit about how so many millenials want socialized medicine). So our startup idea is to create cheap small-scale insulin production hardware, except the second we try to pay back investors and become "for profit", we get regulated like any other drug manufacturer. That means we need to hire an army of lawyers, go through a multi-year multi-million dollar FDA approval process for all the production equipment etc., and open ourselves to patent lawsuits and other weapons of corporate thuggery that the big-time drug companies are so willing to wield. If we manage to make it through that gauntlet of fuckery, god knows if we'll actually be able to sell it for any cheaper than the status quo. I'm open to being told I'm wrong about this problem, but from my understanding there's simply no way to solve this problem without massive regulatory reform. [1] https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/11u1Lqm70xFl0kWTtrt6kAEhrSE=/0x0:1903x757/920x0/filters:focal(0x0:1903x757):format(webp):no_upscale()/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/8500453/ioi150073f1.png https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/11u1Lqm70xFl0kWTtrt6kAEhrSE=...

kaushikktiwari 7y ago
This is really cool--did you hear about how a bunch of hospitals are coming together to manufacture generic drugs that are marked up by PBMs--I imagine if something like that where a stakeholder with input in the buying process can come in and guarantee like a monopolistic market for an upstart..the drugs are going to be cheaper but the fact that the hospitals themselves are consumers means people can take long term bets without fear of losing money
- ibeckermayer 7y ago
  Hmm that's an interesting avenue. I've heard of that briefly somewhere but haven't put any thought into seeking out partnership. Thanks for the tip.
mattieuga 7y ago
This is awesome! I'm the founder of Alto Pharmacy - let me know if we can help with anything (matt at alto.com)
sjg007 7y ago
There may be another way, partner with academic hospitals and have them sell the insulin at cost.
- ibeckermayer 7y ago
  That’s an interesting idea. Maybe something like - We make the insulin and give it to them for free. - They sell it - They donate to us as a 501c3 The legal framework is really twisted and difficult to parse. Maybe this is the perfect loophole, maybe somebody would end up in prison. We’ve got some lawyers volunteering, but per not having much money its difficult to get steady legal counsel to brainstorm with about the legal risks
  - sjg007 7y ago
    Why would you go to jail??
    - ibeckermayer 7y ago
      If we set up a production facility and start trying to sell the insulin we produce, without going through the full regulatory process, we're in violation of the law. If we set up a production facility and give it away for free, and then ask for "donations" from the same group we give it away for free to, is that legal? Jail may also be an overstatement. We are working with lawyers to get a clearer picture of the legal risk involved, for example maybe the biggest risk is that they just come shut us down.
      - sjg007 7y ago
        Hospitals do cell therapy etc... so I bet there’s a way. Maybe a clinical trial.
ksolanki 7y ago
This is really amazing. Kudos to you for the initiative. Going through regulatory, IP, clinical etc. is hard but not that hard. We are going through this ourselves at our startup, and it is daunting and rewarding at the same time. I am happy to share notes should you like.
- ibeckermayer 7y ago
  Thank you, I’m interested in comparing notes. Feel free to send me an email at my user name at gmail dot com
raarts 7y ago
Although it's great to make insulin more affordable, wouldn't it be better to attack the source of the problem? In my opinion the biggest contributor to diabetes is our diet, we eat too many carbs and too little fat. Since fat delivers 9 calories vs 4 for carbs, we humans could suffice with eating way less when switching to fat. The food industry would suffer, but it could be a win for the environment.

kaushikktiwari 7y ago

This is really cool--did you hear about how a bunch of hospitals are coming together to manufacture generic drugs that are marked up by PBMs--I imagine if something like that where a stakeholder with input in the buying process can come in and guarantee like a monopolistic market for an upstart..the drugs are going to be cheaper but the fact that the hospitals themselves are consumers means people can take long term bets without fear of losing money

ibeckermayer 7y ago
Hmm that's an interesting avenue. I've heard of that briefly somewhere but haven't put any thought into seeking out partnership. Thanks for the tip.

mattieuga 7y ago

This is awesome! I'm the founder of Alto Pharmacy - let me know if we can help with anything (matt at alto.com)

sjg007 7y ago

There may be another way, partner with academic hospitals and have them sell the insulin at cost.

ibeckermayer 7y ago
That’s an interesting idea. Maybe something like - We make the insulin and give it to them for free. - They sell it - They donate to us as a 501c3 The legal framework is really twisted and difficult to parse. Maybe this is the perfect loophole, maybe somebody would end up in prison. We’ve got some lawyers volunteering, but per not having much money its difficult to get steady legal counsel to brainstorm with about the legal risks
- sjg007 7y ago
  Why would you go to jail??
  - ibeckermayer 7y ago
    If we set up a production facility and start trying to sell the insulin we produce, without going through the full regulatory process, we're in violation of the law. If we set up a production facility and give it away for free, and then ask for "donations" from the same group we give it away for free to, is that legal? Jail may also be an overstatement. We are working with lawyers to get a clearer picture of the legal risk involved, for example maybe the biggest risk is that they just come shut us down.
    - sjg007 7y ago
      Hospitals do cell therapy etc... so I bet there’s a way. Maybe a clinical trial.

ksolanki 7y ago

This is really amazing. Kudos to you for the initiative. Going through regulatory, IP, clinical etc. is hard but not that hard. We are going through this ourselves at our startup, and it is daunting and rewarding at the same time. I am happy to share notes should you like.

ibeckermayer 7y ago
Thank you, I’m interested in comparing notes. Feel free to send me an email at my user name at gmail dot com

raarts 7y ago

Although it's great to make insulin more affordable, wouldn't it be better to attack the source of the problem? In my opinion the biggest contributor to diabetes is our diet, we eat too many carbs and too little fat. Since fat delivers 9 calories vs 4 for carbs, we humans could suffice with eating way less when switching to fat. The food industry would suffer, but it could be a win for the environment.