21 ms·

Maybe the society has to finally adapt & embrace to the way things are going in the last 20 years: music stars to earn their money in the concerts they sold out

Maybe the society has to finally adapt & embrace to the way things are going in the last 20 years: music stars to earn their money in the concerts they sold out due to "piracy" and not from selling CDs, movie stars from royalties paid by subscribers of Netflix and HBO and other such services, or even monetize their popularity directly from endorsing products. Software developers seem to be the first to adapt: you can't pirate a SaaS or a cloud. One can try and copy it, but will be always behind the first moved and the original creator, because they always seem to have good ideas. Equating IP with real estate is bad for the society: why would someone keep producing and keep performing if they made a hit with a song, or a movie, or a game?

KorematsuFred 7y ago
Correct. Changing people's behavior by making complex laws makes no sense.
- kitchenkarma 7y ago
  If it doesn't make sense, then it means someone who shouldn't have will make profit.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
cc81 7y ago
Do people really pirate music much anymore? It feels that Spotify and similar services won over piracy except in a few edge cases.
- mruts 7y ago
  If you deeply care about music and are an audiophile you do. I was on what.cd before it closed are really appreciated being able to get flac rips of original release vinyl, sometimes dating back 60-70 years. Example first pressings I have in flac: velvet underground, the doors, led zeppelin, etc
  - TylerE 7y ago
    Eh, you can stream Flac from Tidal and their catalog is basically as big as Spotify.
    - mruts 7y ago
      Spotify’s collection is nowhere close to what what.cd used to have before it got shutdown.
      - crtasm 7y ago
        I've heard there are multiple successors e.g. https://interviewfor.red/en/index.html https://interviewfor.red/en/index.html
    - turrini 7y ago
      Sometimes these streams aren't available due to contract changes
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
    - handedness 7y ago
      Which is often audibly watermarked: https://www.mattmontag.com/music/universals-audible-watermark https://www.mattmontag.com/music/universals-audible-watermar...
    - mustacheemperor 7y ago
      Like Spotify, is their catalog often arbitrarily populated with whatever the most recent remaster is, or some other random release? There is value to having a lossless rip of a specific pressing of a given album. Especially with the case of albums that were mangled with limiters etc during their "remasters."
      - whenchamenia 7y ago
        The number of albums I cannot find un-remastered is infuriating. I want the version I remember, not this years overcompressed mixing style squashing the dynamics while the singer autotunes out those 'bad notes'.
- tudorconstantin 7y ago
  I personally am not a big music listener, but when I want music, I start YouTube and do it there, for free, with uBlok installed, which is the same thing. And that seems to work for artists and YouTube too. When I was a teenager (20 years ago), this wasn't possible and we torrented whole albums like hell. Some people got in jail back then, or had to pay huge fines for "unrealized profits", which was absurd.
- avip 7y ago
  If ytdl-ing playlists is considered pirating - yep, for sure. Personally, I do it because youtube has the most complete, without any close competition, music collection (in varying quality).
  - kinleyd 7y ago
    Playing music off youtube is now the norm in my circle. It's definitely going to dent sales. I don't like spotify and similar services, and try to buy my favorite music online if I can, but invariably am forced to torrents because it's hard to get where I am. I'm amazed the music and movie business is finding it so hard to adapt.
- CydeWeys 7y ago
  I tend to just listen to music on YouTube these days. For the most part, what I want to listen to is available on there, albeit probably not with the consent of the copyright holder. Does that count as piracy?
  - theturtletalks 7y ago
    I mean this worked for a while, but many songs now are distorted or slowed down so they're not detected by Youtube copyright bots.
    - CydeWeys 7y ago
      It still works just fine for the kind of music I listen to, no distortion involved.
    - cwkoss 7y ago
      "I for one prefer the dmca evasion remix..."
    - userbinator 7y ago
      Many songs are sped up, and the discovery that this often has the effect of making them sound better than the original may have created a whole new "genre" of music --- nightcore. I've come across some very pleasing "nightcore'd" songs, and listened to the original, but still think the sped-up and higher-pitched version sounds better. It's an interesting psychological effect. ...and I've also noticed the content ID system still detects them, but they probably remain because the IP holders are content to monetise those videos and reap the profits rather than getting them taken down (and earning nothing.) That turns the question into "is adblocking piracy?" and that's a whole different can of worms...
  - beenBoutIT 7y ago
    Youtube-dl can turn the YouTube videos into audio tracks for you, at least a few steps closer to piracy.
    - 7y ago
- jforberg 7y ago
  Spotify did it right; they managed to put together a service that is actually better than piracy in the ways that matter to a typical consumer. The movie and TV industry have instead put great effort into building services that are significantly worse than piracy. And nobody can understand why movie piracy is still rampant, while music piracy is receding.
  - Nition 7y ago
    There still isn't a movie streaming service with as much selection as an old video store. Meanwhile Spotify has just about everything.
    - pmtarantino 7y ago
      The problem for me isn't the old ones - is the new ones. I want to see the new movies at my house. Yeah, there are films that I'd like to see at the cinema, but those are less than 5 per year. But if I could pay to watch a new film in the comfort of my home, I'd do it. As I can't, I'll probably download it for free.
      - nine_k 7y ago
        Would you pay for it as much as a movie ticket costs? The movie industry goal is to improve box office, not your experience, but these two are linked.
        chupasaurus 7y ago
        Same thing was with music industry and guess what? Their revenue from streaming is way lower.
        lagadu 7y ago
        At this point is feels like their goal is to get me to pirate as much as possible, lets see my anecdotal data point: Music - Tidal covers about >95% of my music consumption. TV shows - I have netflix and and prime, these cover maybe 75% of my tv consumption. Films - Going to the cinema covers 10-20% maybe? I go to the cinema about 5-10 times a year and I pirate the rest because I don't have a good enough service to get those from legally.
- rodolphoarruda 7y ago
  I do pirate movies. Old ones I can't find in any vendor, e.g. old Woody Allen movies. I also realized that some titles do exist in vendor's catalog, but are not available in my region for some reason.
- xfitm3 7y ago
  Yes. Lots.
- o10449366 7y ago
  Not since what.cd was killed.
- ngcc_hk 7y ago
  Pay for the hbo mobile version but can’t watch GoT you know. I think music well pass the stage - got both itune music and spotify. But what they should do is to have a non-Priatebay p2p services. Would pay. Really. Have paid in fact. just the broadcasting model is not working. Many got GBit network at home. Cover those first. Not give them dark screen is a good start. P2P
- flukus 7y ago
  Yes, pirated music doesn't waste mobile bandwidth, doesn't get interrupted when I lose my mobile collection, is much quicker to copy between devices, integrates better with music from local artists and gives me many much better music players to choose from.
  - beanland 7y ago
    Most streaming services let you download the media to save on bandwidth. My entire music library on Spotify is downloaded so I don't have to worry about connectivity issues. You can do similar things with Netflix. It's also easier for me to move to different devices, because all I have to do is sign into Spotify. Manually transferring songs like I used to with an iPod is something I don't want to have to go back to.
    - flukus 7y ago
      I can't speak for spotify, but last time I tried with google music the player still used a lot of bandwidth for whatever reason when playing only cached songs. There were also bugs like pressing next twice in quick succession having non-deterministic behavior, possibly due to network requests. > Manually transferring songs like I used to with an iPod is something I don't want to have to go back to. A minor price to pay for not being tethered to an inferior proprietary music player.
      - dmitriid 7y ago
        > the player still used a lot of bandwidth for whatever reason when playing only cached songs Reporting listening statistics for royalty payouts.
    - soulofmischief 7y ago
      Buying a t-shirt gives more money to an artist than several years' worth of you streaming their music online. Spotify started off great but is now a total ripoff to artists since it got in bed with the major labels, trading stock for a larger cut of ad and subscription revenue. You aren't any better for using Spotify and not torrenting. Make sure to support your favorite artists when they perform near you, and buy merch. Support small-time and local artists. That is the best thing you can do for the music industry.
- JudgeWapner 7y ago
  I have terabytes of pirated music....that I hardly ever listen to because it's too much work to load up the player and find something to play. I much prefer google play, with their algorithms for finding new music for me, instead of me having to hunt for it. Looking at multi-terabyte directories and trying to decide what to listen to is just overwhelming. Google Play has introduced me to several new artists and a couple entire genre's of music that I would have never otherwise found, and $15/mo is well worth it.
  - PorterDuff 7y ago
    It's funny how quantity has a lack of quality all it's own. My own take for getting surprised is to check out (usually) European jazz radio stations on internet radio.
    - JudgeWapner 7y ago
      exactly. Before I had google play I'd end up playing from the same set or leaving off with the same directory that I had listened to before. I'm also a fan of XM radio because while driving it's too much work to pull up the phone and start a playlist, and to an extent I do like the (one-sided) human "contact" of having the DJ announce the songs and make occasional chatter (even if I begrudgingly complain about it sometimes). I tried Radio Garden [1] but found myself still listening to top-40 adult contemporary crap. [1] https://radio.garden/ https://radio.garden/
  - kinleyd 7y ago
    It's a pain if it isn't organized well. When it is organized well, it's the best. I have mpd+emms set up with an always on emms playlist window and dedicated dired window for my music collection. I can't say the same for my book collection though. I tried calibre but didn't like it. Been experimenting with some custom scripts that work but are in dire need of indexing and optimization.
  - rlue 7y ago
    Run a Plex server, and you can stream your own library of music from anywhere (one-time $5 purchase for your mobile app). Of course, this doesn't solve the issue of recommendations, but I personally see discovery and collection as two different roles which can be filled by two different models/services.
- whenchamenia 7y ago
  As an artist, who collects royalties, go on and torrent it. We see virtually nothing from the likes of spotify thanks to backroom deals selling us out. Come see the show, buy merch, the music is for better or worse, free.
  - dmitriid 7y ago
    > We see virtually nothing from the likes of spotify thanks to backroom deals selling us out. Blame your publishers and companies you sell your rights to: Warner Music, Sony etc. They demand up to 70% of revenue from “the likes of Spotify” in royalties.
- fruffy 7y ago
  I have a Spotify subscription but still download music because I prefer owning a library instead of just renting it. However, pirating is becoming harder and harder. Because of Spotify and other service participaton in piracy has declined substantially. File hosting is almost gone, all I see is dead links. What.cd, the greatest archive in the world has been taken down, such a pity. I think a lot of people have moved to soulseek or rutracker, but in general the Internet seems to be cleaning up.
- munmaek 7y ago
  Only for tracks and albums I like very much, that I would be very sad if they were go to away. Spotify just makes it so easy– click on "offline download", boom, done.
kitchenkarma 7y ago
It is not that simple. There are artists for example who are disabled and it is difficult to do concerts, but I agree with you. Just wanted to point that out as some people think of artists as dancing monkeys and not humans like everyone else.
- mruts 7y ago
  Aren’t all people dancing monkeys? Also could you give examples of popular disabled artists that can’t perform on stage? Because I don’t think I or anyone I know could list a single example.
  - Scalestein 7y ago
    Plenty of musicians don't your or tour very infrequently. Tool, Godspeed, Kate Bush, and the later era Beatles are all good examples. Maybe they weren't 'disabled' but they had their reasons for not wanting to tour.
    - perfmode 7y ago
      I’d love to know of a disabled musician who fits the archetype which is typically thrown around in this discussion. It seems to be purely hypothetical. Also, this argument discounts second order effects. Who knows what new innovations might be brought on by the need to find an alternate revenue source.
    - DennisP 7y ago
      I have my reasons for not wanting to go to work. Economies change. Everybody has to adapt and do work that people will pay for. In music, increasingly, that means performing live. There might be other options too. Crowdfunding new albums, maybe. Merchandising. The more we accept the new reality, the more we'll figure out.
    - gnopgnip 7y ago
      Tool also is not available on streaming sites
    - 7y ago
rlue 7y ago
> music stars to earn their money in the concerts they sold out due to "piracy" and not from selling CDs this is not entirely true; musicians also earn a significant amount of money based on how many times their songs are played on streaming services like Spotify. Hasan Minhaj had a bit about this in Patriot Act, explaining that this is the reason artists like Li'l Pump are releasing albums with dozens of two-minute songs—shorter tracks means more plays means more $$. What this means, and what trips me out about using Spotify (or even YouTube), is that I literally can't listen to music on their platform without putting money in someone's pocket. Great for artists I love, sad for cultural curiosities I want to understand but decidedly don't want to support, like Li'l Pump or Chris Brown.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- lostjohnny 7y ago
  You don't need to make a ton of money to live of your music. make 60k/year in concerts and you'll live without problems in a country like Italy. It looks like a lot, but it means 150 shows/year at around 400 euros each + expenses (mainly gas, road tolls, some lunch on the road - sleeping, eating and drinking are provided by the promoter or the venue). I've worked with bands that played more than 200 shows/year that earned around 5k + merchandise per show. They payed me 100 bucks per gig, just to sell their merchandise. Provided it becomes a real job and you have to work hard to keep it going, it's totally doable.
  - soulofmischief 7y ago
    What kind of experience do you have working with bands gigging at 100-200 shows a year? Just merchandising? This is a market I'm very interested in.
    - lostjohnny 7y ago
      Thanks for asking! This is a funny topic for me, I've always been a super music fan, but never played any instrument. I've been more a "roadie" than just a merchandiser, I mean that I was with them all the time, loading, unloading, driving and helping out. Sometimes I've also acted as tour manager, but only in venues we already knew. Most of the largest shows have been with an Italian band throughout Italy, production was in the medium range, going between a few hundreds to thousands of people (less than 5 thousands). Many of the smaller ones were in Europe, with american bands, where it usually was in the hundreds in undeground clubs - there 's a large variety of them in Europe, you can find the youth center in Switzerland that has hotel's level accomodations and the squat in east Germany where you sleep on the floor in the cold. But it's a good network to get a lot of shows close to each other, so you don't have to drive much and everyone is kind. We've also been playing to many festivals: from desert fest to duna jam, from freak valley to roadburn, from up in smoke to hellfest. It's another great way to make connections and meet the bands. I'm especially fond of what's called stoner rock (I prefer the name desert rock though) and I've toured a lot with bands from the Rome based Heavy Psych Sounds label. I've been doing it for about 5 years, then the main band I was following took a sabbatical and I went back into tech as a programmer (my day to day job since 1997) It's been the best part of my life, and, as crazy it might sound, the time of my life when I saved the most: I didn't have to pay for food, drinks, traveling or going to concerts, which basically is where most of my finances went anyway... I had to pay the mortgage on my house, but if I was renting, I could have saved on that as well. Best and worst memory is opening to Eagles of Death Metal in Milan, where I've spent the night smoking pot with Dave Catching, founder of Rancho de La Luna and one of my heroes. I've also shared the merch booth with Nic, their merchandiser, that few days later was tragically killed in the Bataclan massacre. TL;DR: I got to do it as a job just by answering "yes" to "we need a driver for this one date, are you interested?". I've been reliable so they kept calling me and I ended up being part of the crew, without even noticing.

KorematsuFred 7y ago

Correct. Changing people's behavior by making complex laws makes no sense.

kitchenkarma 7y ago
If it doesn't make sense, then it means someone who shouldn't have will make profit.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

cc81 7y ago

Do people really pirate music much anymore? It feels that Spotify and similar services won over piracy except in a few edge cases.

mruts 7y ago
If you deeply care about music and are an audiophile you do. I was on what.cd before it closed are really appreciated being able to get flac rips of original release vinyl, sometimes dating back 60-70 years. Example first pressings I have in flac: velvet underground, the doors, led zeppelin, etc
- TylerE 7y ago
  Eh, you can stream Flac from Tidal and their catalog is basically as big as Spotify.
  - mruts 7y ago
    Spotify’s collection is nowhere close to what what.cd used to have before it got shutdown.
    - crtasm 7y ago
      I've heard there are multiple successors e.g. https://interviewfor.red/en/index.html https://interviewfor.red/en/index.html
  - turrini 7y ago
    Sometimes these streams aren't available due to contract changes
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - handedness 7y ago
    Which is often audibly watermarked: https://www.mattmontag.com/music/universals-audible-watermark https://www.mattmontag.com/music/universals-audible-watermar...
  - mustacheemperor 7y ago
    Like Spotify, is their catalog often arbitrarily populated with whatever the most recent remaster is, or some other random release? There is value to having a lossless rip of a specific pressing of a given album. Especially with the case of albums that were mangled with limiters etc during their "remasters."
    - whenchamenia 7y ago
      The number of albums I cannot find un-remastered is infuriating. I want the version I remember, not this years overcompressed mixing style squashing the dynamics while the singer autotunes out those 'bad notes'.
tudorconstantin 7y ago
I personally am not a big music listener, but when I want music, I start YouTube and do it there, for free, with uBlok installed, which is the same thing. And that seems to work for artists and YouTube too. When I was a teenager (20 years ago), this wasn't possible and we torrented whole albums like hell. Some people got in jail back then, or had to pay huge fines for "unrealized profits", which was absurd.
avip 7y ago
If ytdl-ing playlists is considered pirating - yep, for sure. Personally, I do it because youtube has the most complete, without any close competition, music collection (in varying quality).
- kinleyd 7y ago
  Playing music off youtube is now the norm in my circle. It's definitely going to dent sales. I don't like spotify and similar services, and try to buy my favorite music online if I can, but invariably am forced to torrents because it's hard to get where I am. I'm amazed the music and movie business is finding it so hard to adapt.
CydeWeys 7y ago
I tend to just listen to music on YouTube these days. For the most part, what I want to listen to is available on there, albeit probably not with the consent of the copyright holder. Does that count as piracy?
- theturtletalks 7y ago
  I mean this worked for a while, but many songs now are distorted or slowed down so they're not detected by Youtube copyright bots.
  - CydeWeys 7y ago
    It still works just fine for the kind of music I listen to, no distortion involved.
  - cwkoss 7y ago
    "I for one prefer the dmca evasion remix..."
  - userbinator 7y ago
    Many songs are sped up, and the discovery that this often has the effect of making them sound better than the original may have created a whole new "genre" of music --- nightcore. I've come across some very pleasing "nightcore'd" songs, and listened to the original, but still think the sped-up and higher-pitched version sounds better. It's an interesting psychological effect. ...and I've also noticed the content ID system still detects them, but they probably remain because the IP holders are content to monetise those videos and reap the profits rather than getting them taken down (and earning nothing.) That turns the question into "is adblocking piracy?" and that's a whole different can of worms...
- beenBoutIT 7y ago
  Youtube-dl can turn the YouTube videos into audio tracks for you, at least a few steps closer to piracy.
  - 7y ago
jforberg 7y ago
Spotify did it right; they managed to put together a service that is actually better than piracy in the ways that matter to a typical consumer. The movie and TV industry have instead put great effort into building services that are significantly worse than piracy. And nobody can understand why movie piracy is still rampant, while music piracy is receding.
- Nition 7y ago
  There still isn't a movie streaming service with as much selection as an old video store. Meanwhile Spotify has just about everything.
  - pmtarantino 7y ago
    The problem for me isn't the old ones - is the new ones. I want to see the new movies at my house. Yeah, there are films that I'd like to see at the cinema, but those are less than 5 per year. But if I could pay to watch a new film in the comfort of my home, I'd do it. As I can't, I'll probably download it for free.
    - nine_k 7y ago
      Would you pay for it as much as a movie ticket costs? The movie industry goal is to improve box office, not your experience, but these two are linked.
      - chupasaurus 7y ago
        Same thing was with music industry and guess what? Their revenue from streaming is way lower.
      - lagadu 7y ago
        At this point is feels like their goal is to get me to pirate as much as possible, lets see my anecdotal data point: Music - Tidal covers about >95% of my music consumption. TV shows - I have netflix and and prime, these cover maybe 75% of my tv consumption. Films - Going to the cinema covers 10-20% maybe? I go to the cinema about 5-10 times a year and I pirate the rest because I don't have a good enough service to get those from legally.
rodolphoarruda 7y ago
I do pirate movies. Old ones I can't find in any vendor, e.g. old Woody Allen movies. I also realized that some titles do exist in vendor's catalog, but are not available in my region for some reason.
xfitm3 7y ago
Yes. Lots.
o10449366 7y ago
Not since what.cd was killed.
ngcc_hk 7y ago
Pay for the hbo mobile version but can’t watch GoT you know. I think music well pass the stage - got both itune music and spotify. But what they should do is to have a non-Priatebay p2p services. Would pay. Really. Have paid in fact. just the broadcasting model is not working. Many got GBit network at home. Cover those first. Not give them dark screen is a good start. P2P
flukus 7y ago
Yes, pirated music doesn't waste mobile bandwidth, doesn't get interrupted when I lose my mobile collection, is much quicker to copy between devices, integrates better with music from local artists and gives me many much better music players to choose from.
- beanland 7y ago
  Most streaming services let you download the media to save on bandwidth. My entire music library on Spotify is downloaded so I don't have to worry about connectivity issues. You can do similar things with Netflix. It's also easier for me to move to different devices, because all I have to do is sign into Spotify. Manually transferring songs like I used to with an iPod is something I don't want to have to go back to.
  - flukus 7y ago
    I can't speak for spotify, but last time I tried with google music the player still used a lot of bandwidth for whatever reason when playing only cached songs. There were also bugs like pressing next twice in quick succession having non-deterministic behavior, possibly due to network requests. > Manually transferring songs like I used to with an iPod is something I don't want to have to go back to. A minor price to pay for not being tethered to an inferior proprietary music player.
    - dmitriid 7y ago
      > the player still used a lot of bandwidth for whatever reason when playing only cached songs Reporting listening statistics for royalty payouts.
  - soulofmischief 7y ago
    Buying a t-shirt gives more money to an artist than several years' worth of you streaming their music online. Spotify started off great but is now a total ripoff to artists since it got in bed with the major labels, trading stock for a larger cut of ad and subscription revenue. You aren't any better for using Spotify and not torrenting. Make sure to support your favorite artists when they perform near you, and buy merch. Support small-time and local artists. That is the best thing you can do for the music industry.
JudgeWapner 7y ago
I have terabytes of pirated music....that I hardly ever listen to because it's too much work to load up the player and find something to play. I much prefer google play, with their algorithms for finding new music for me, instead of me having to hunt for it. Looking at multi-terabyte directories and trying to decide what to listen to is just overwhelming. Google Play has introduced me to several new artists and a couple entire genre's of music that I would have never otherwise found, and $15/mo is well worth it.
- PorterDuff 7y ago
  It's funny how quantity has a lack of quality all it's own. My own take for getting surprised is to check out (usually) European jazz radio stations on internet radio.
  - JudgeWapner 7y ago
    exactly. Before I had google play I'd end up playing from the same set or leaving off with the same directory that I had listened to before. I'm also a fan of XM radio because while driving it's too much work to pull up the phone and start a playlist, and to an extent I do like the (one-sided) human "contact" of having the DJ announce the songs and make occasional chatter (even if I begrudgingly complain about it sometimes). I tried Radio Garden [1] but found myself still listening to top-40 adult contemporary crap. [1] https://radio.garden/ https://radio.garden/
- kinleyd 7y ago
  It's a pain if it isn't organized well. When it is organized well, it's the best. I have mpd+emms set up with an always on emms playlist window and dedicated dired window for my music collection. I can't say the same for my book collection though. I tried calibre but didn't like it. Been experimenting with some custom scripts that work but are in dire need of indexing and optimization.
- rlue 7y ago
  Run a Plex server, and you can stream your own library of music from anywhere (one-time $5 purchase for your mobile app). Of course, this doesn't solve the issue of recommendations, but I personally see discovery and collection as two different roles which can be filled by two different models/services.
whenchamenia 7y ago
As an artist, who collects royalties, go on and torrent it. We see virtually nothing from the likes of spotify thanks to backroom deals selling us out. Come see the show, buy merch, the music is for better or worse, free.
- dmitriid 7y ago
  > We see virtually nothing from the likes of spotify thanks to backroom deals selling us out. Blame your publishers and companies you sell your rights to: Warner Music, Sony etc. They demand up to 70% of revenue from “the likes of Spotify” in royalties.
fruffy 7y ago
I have a Spotify subscription but still download music because I prefer owning a library instead of just renting it. However, pirating is becoming harder and harder. Because of Spotify and other service participaton in piracy has declined substantially. File hosting is almost gone, all I see is dead links. What.cd, the greatest archive in the world has been taken down, such a pity. I think a lot of people have moved to soulseek or rutracker, but in general the Internet seems to be cleaning up.
munmaek 7y ago
Only for tracks and albums I like very much, that I would be very sad if they were go to away. Spotify just makes it so easy– click on "offline download", boom, done.

kitchenkarma 7y ago

It is not that simple. There are artists for example who are disabled and it is difficult to do concerts, but I agree with you. Just wanted to point that out as some people think of artists as dancing monkeys and not humans like everyone else.

mruts 7y ago
Aren’t all people dancing monkeys? Also could you give examples of popular disabled artists that can’t perform on stage? Because I don’t think I or anyone I know could list a single example.
- Scalestein 7y ago
  Plenty of musicians don't your or tour very infrequently. Tool, Godspeed, Kate Bush, and the later era Beatles are all good examples. Maybe they weren't 'disabled' but they had their reasons for not wanting to tour.
  - perfmode 7y ago
    I’d love to know of a disabled musician who fits the archetype which is typically thrown around in this discussion. It seems to be purely hypothetical. Also, this argument discounts second order effects. Who knows what new innovations might be brought on by the need to find an alternate revenue source.
  - DennisP 7y ago
    I have my reasons for not wanting to go to work. Economies change. Everybody has to adapt and do work that people will pay for. In music, increasingly, that means performing live. There might be other options too. Crowdfunding new albums, maybe. Merchandising. The more we accept the new reality, the more we'll figure out.
  - gnopgnip 7y ago
    Tool also is not available on streaming sites
  - 7y ago

rlue 7y ago

> music stars to earn their money in the concerts they sold out due to "piracy" and not from selling CDs this is not entirely true; musicians also earn a significant amount of money based on how many times their songs are played on streaming services like Spotify. Hasan Minhaj had a bit about this in Patriot Act, explaining that this is the reason artists like Li'l Pump are releasing albums with dozens of two-minute songs—shorter tracks means more plays means more $$. What this means, and what trips me out about using Spotify (or even YouTube), is that I literally can't listen to music on their platform without putting money in someone's pocket. Great for artists I love, sad for cultural curiosities I want to understand but decidedly don't want to support, like Li'l Pump or Chris Brown.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
lostjohnny 7y ago
You don't need to make a ton of money to live of your music. make 60k/year in concerts and you'll live without problems in a country like Italy. It looks like a lot, but it means 150 shows/year at around 400 euros each + expenses (mainly gas, road tolls, some lunch on the road - sleeping, eating and drinking are provided by the promoter or the venue). I've worked with bands that played more than 200 shows/year that earned around 5k + merchandise per show. They payed me 100 bucks per gig, just to sell their merchandise. Provided it becomes a real job and you have to work hard to keep it going, it's totally doable.
- soulofmischief 7y ago
  What kind of experience do you have working with bands gigging at 100-200 shows a year? Just merchandising? This is a market I'm very interested in.
  - lostjohnny 7y ago
    Thanks for asking! This is a funny topic for me, I've always been a super music fan, but never played any instrument. I've been more a "roadie" than just a merchandiser, I mean that I was with them all the time, loading, unloading, driving and helping out. Sometimes I've also acted as tour manager, but only in venues we already knew. Most of the largest shows have been with an Italian band throughout Italy, production was in the medium range, going between a few hundreds to thousands of people (less than 5 thousands). Many of the smaller ones were in Europe, with american bands, where it usually was in the hundreds in undeground clubs - there 's a large variety of them in Europe, you can find the youth center in Switzerland that has hotel's level accomodations and the squat in east Germany where you sleep on the floor in the cold. But it's a good network to get a lot of shows close to each other, so you don't have to drive much and everyone is kind. We've also been playing to many festivals: from desert fest to duna jam, from freak valley to roadburn, from up in smoke to hellfest. It's another great way to make connections and meet the bands. I'm especially fond of what's called stoner rock (I prefer the name desert rock though) and I've toured a lot with bands from the Rome based Heavy Psych Sounds label. I've been doing it for about 5 years, then the main band I was following took a sabbatical and I went back into tech as a programmer (my day to day job since 1997) It's been the best part of my life, and, as crazy it might sound, the time of my life when I saved the most: I didn't have to pay for food, drinks, traveling or going to concerts, which basically is where most of my finances went anyway... I had to pay the mortgage on my house, but if I was renting, I could have saved on that as well. Best and worst memory is opening to Eagles of Death Metal in Milan, where I've spent the night smoking pot with Dave Catching, founder of Rancho de La Luna and one of my heroes. I've also shared the merch booth with Nic, their merchandiser, that few days later was tragically killed in the Bataclan massacre. TL;DR: I got to do it as a job just by answering "yes" to "we need a driver for this one date, are you interested?". I've been reliable so they kept calling me and I ended up being part of the crew, without even noticing.