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[Before Snowden] People on HN: Of course the government aren't spying on citizens. What are you? Some kind of tin-foil hat-wearing conspiracy theory nutjob? [

[Before Snowden] People on HN: Of course the government aren't spying on citizens. What are you? Some kind of tin-foil hat-wearing conspiracy theory nutjob? [After Snowden] People on HN: Well obviously the government were spying on everyone. Were you really that naïve? [Before Assange Indictment] People on HN: That Assange guy is a completely delusional whack-job. How can anyone be so stupid to believe the UK/Sweden would cooperate with the US in taking him down permanently? [After Assange Indictment] [crickets (for now at least)]

mcv 7y ago
That's an extreme misrepresentation. Unless your argument is that on this site there was probably someone who held that opinion at the time. But before Snowden, many people here were under no delusions about US government spying, and few people have ever doubted the UK's willingness to cooperate with the US on anything. People only doubted, and still doubt, Sweden's willingness to extradite Assange to the US for espionage. They don't do that. Sweden wants him for rape.
- monocasa 7y ago
  Sweden allows the CIA to just black bag people, outside of the legal system. That's the fear of being extradited to Sweden; the UK doesn't allow the CIA to do that. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Repatriation_of_Ahmed_Agiza_and_Muhammad_al-Zery https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Repatriation_of_Ahmed_Agiza_an...
  - mcv 7y ago
    Not good, but also not the same thing. This was deportation of asylum seekers to Egypt, not extradition to the US. Edit: it's also not true that the UK doesn't deport who shouldn't be deported. Just a random search result: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/may/09/revealed-five-men-killed-since-being-deported-uk-jamaica-home-office https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/may/09/revealed-fiv...
    - monocasa 7y ago
      It wasn't deportation, because Sweden didn't go through their deportation process. It was Swedish police watching while CIA agents black bagged Swedish residents in the middle of the night.
astine 7y ago
"People on HN" Thousands of people comment on hacker news, including people who said the opposite of what you attribute to HN. It's unwise to to treat the people that you are arguing with on Tuesday as if they are are the same people you are arguing with on Monday.
- OrgNet 7y ago
  Talking about the majority, I assume.
  - astine 7y ago
    Is it really the majority however? Or just how the majority appears? I know that it can sometimes feel like one is in the minority because disagreement stands out more than agreement.
threeseed 7y ago
This sort of pattern where you create these fictitious scenarios involving multiple "people" speaking with one voice is not normal. HN like reality is comprised of people with many different viewpoints.
tialaramex 7y ago
"People on HN: Of course the government aren't spying on citizens. What are you? Some kind of tin-foil hat-wearing conspiracy theory nutjob?" This never made any sense to me, and I brought it up any time it was mentioned. It is the nature of spooks to spy on everybody. The pretence that somehow magically their spooks don't spy on US citizens never passed the sniff test. Think about it, how could they possibly _tell_ if someone is actually a citizen? They've got no reliable way to do that, and obviously the grey areas are _exactly_ where you should look for bad guys, so in practice _obviously_ they will spy on citizens.

mcv 7y ago

That's an extreme misrepresentation. Unless your argument is that on this site there was probably someone who held that opinion at the time. But before Snowden, many people here were under no delusions about US government spying, and few people have ever doubted the UK's willingness to cooperate with the US on anything. People only doubted, and still doubt, Sweden's willingness to extradite Assange to the US for espionage. They don't do that. Sweden wants him for rape.

monocasa 7y ago
Sweden allows the CIA to just black bag people, outside of the legal system. That's the fear of being extradited to Sweden; the UK doesn't allow the CIA to do that. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Repatriation_of_Ahmed_Agiza_and_Muhammad_al-Zery https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Repatriation_of_Ahmed_Agiza_an...
- mcv 7y ago
  Not good, but also not the same thing. This was deportation of asylum seekers to Egypt, not extradition to the US. Edit: it's also not true that the UK doesn't deport who shouldn't be deported. Just a random search result: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/may/09/revealed-five-men-killed-since-being-deported-uk-jamaica-home-office https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/may/09/revealed-fiv...
  - monocasa 7y ago
    It wasn't deportation, because Sweden didn't go through their deportation process. It was Swedish police watching while CIA agents black bagged Swedish residents in the middle of the night.

astine 7y ago

"People on HN" Thousands of people comment on hacker news, including people who said the opposite of what you attribute to HN. It's unwise to to treat the people that you are arguing with on Tuesday as if they are are the same people you are arguing with on Monday.

OrgNet 7y ago
Talking about the majority, I assume.
- astine 7y ago
  Is it really the majority however? Or just how the majority appears? I know that it can sometimes feel like one is in the minority because disagreement stands out more than agreement.

threeseed 7y ago

This sort of pattern where you create these fictitious scenarios involving multiple "people" speaking with one voice is not normal. HN like reality is comprised of people with many different viewpoints.

tialaramex 7y ago

"People on HN: Of course the government aren't spying on citizens. What are you? Some kind of tin-foil hat-wearing conspiracy theory nutjob?" This never made any sense to me, and I brought it up any time it was mentioned. It is the nature of spooks to spy on everybody. The pretence that somehow magically their spooks don't spy on US citizens never passed the sniff test. Think about it, how could they possibly _tell_ if someone is actually a citizen? They've got no reliable way to do that, and obviously the grey areas are _exactly_ where you should look for bad guys, so in practice _obviously_ they will spy on citizens.