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Ah, yes, the ultimate "fuck you, got mine" sentiment in action: benefiting from the level of unprecedented wealth and prosperity we live in, which came from hum

Ah, yes, the ultimate "fuck you, got mine" sentiment in action: benefiting from the level of unprecedented wealth and prosperity we live in, which came from humanity spreading around the globe and ingeniously utilizing its resources, and now wanting to pull the ladder of life itself up away from the next generation. Remember, rising empires build roads, and declining empires build walls. The way out of the current climate crisis is not to wall off what we have and die in stasis; I'm afraid the only way out is through, and we're not going to get there by dwindling our own population.

empath75 7y ago
> Remember, rising empires build roads, and declining empires build walls. That’s a fine statement but the wall building is a symptom of decline, not a cause of it. I don’t think the Roman Empire would have reversed it’s decline by building more roads to Scotland and Germany.
snowwrestler 7y ago
> benefiting from the level of unprecedented wealth and prosperity we live in, which came from humanity spreading around the globe and ingeniously utilizing its resources, and now wanting to pull the ladder of life itself up away from the next generation. Uh, where else on the globe do we have to spread? What new resources are there for us to discover? The time period where a growing human population could grow their standard of living by moving into pristine lands and exploiting their natural resources is basically over. Lands are either already being exploited, or are intentionally protected. And the side effects of exploitation are starting to balance against the benefits. We can't think about burning the next 1,000 tons of coal, the same way we thought about the first 1,000 tons of coal humanity burned. I think you've got the idea that a growing human population was a major factor in building wealth and prosperity, which is not really true. Our ability to adapt to and exploit new areas of the Earth allowed us to grow wealth and prosperity despite steep population growth. I'm not advocating for forced sterilization. But it is absolutely true that humanity cannot continue to grow its standard of living by just keeping on with what worked 100 years ago.
- nostrademons 7y ago
  Humanity has occupied effectively the full extent of the globe since the last Ice Age ended 10,000 years ago. Any increases in territory since then have come at the expense of some group that was living there before.
thaumasiotes 7y ago
> rising empires build roads, and declining empires build walls The first half is true, because roads are a key instrument of military invasions, and that's how empires rise. The second half is true in that all empires of any scale build walls regardless of whether they're rising or declining. An empire with no walls is an empire that belongs to someone else. But neither of those seems like an especially deep or compelling point. > "Good fences make good neighbors" experienced early retirement. In its place came the untested phrase, "Build bridges, not walls." If nothing else, the new slogan seemed designed to give military historians fits. Throughout history, bridge building had been recognized as an act of aggression. ( https://www.amazon.com/dp/1501172700/ https://www.amazon.com/dp/1501172700/ )

empath75 7y ago

> Remember, rising empires build roads, and declining empires build walls. That’s a fine statement but the wall building is a symptom of decline, not a cause of it. I don’t think the Roman Empire would have reversed it’s decline by building more roads to Scotland and Germany.

snowwrestler 7y ago

> benefiting from the level of unprecedented wealth and prosperity we live in, which came from humanity spreading around the globe and ingeniously utilizing its resources, and now wanting to pull the ladder of life itself up away from the next generation. Uh, where else on the globe do we have to spread? What new resources are there for us to discover? The time period where a growing human population could grow their standard of living by moving into pristine lands and exploiting their natural resources is basically over. Lands are either already being exploited, or are intentionally protected. And the side effects of exploitation are starting to balance against the benefits. We can't think about burning the next 1,000 tons of coal, the same way we thought about the first 1,000 tons of coal humanity burned. I think you've got the idea that a growing human population was a major factor in building wealth and prosperity, which is not really true. Our ability to adapt to and exploit new areas of the Earth allowed us to grow wealth and prosperity despite steep population growth. I'm not advocating for forced sterilization. But it is absolutely true that humanity cannot continue to grow its standard of living by just keeping on with what worked 100 years ago.

nostrademons 7y ago
Humanity has occupied effectively the full extent of the globe since the last Ice Age ended 10,000 years ago. Any increases in territory since then have come at the expense of some group that was living there before.

thaumasiotes 7y ago

> rising empires build roads, and declining empires build walls The first half is true, because roads are a key instrument of military invasions, and that's how empires rise. The second half is true in that all empires of any scale build walls regardless of whether they're rising or declining. An empire with no walls is an empire that belongs to someone else. But neither of those seems like an especially deep or compelling point. > "Good fences make good neighbors" experienced early retirement. In its place came the untested phrase, "Build bridges, not walls." If nothing else, the new slogan seemed designed to give military historians fits. Throughout history, bridge building had been recognized as an act of aggression. ( https://www.amazon.com/dp/1501172700/ https://www.amazon.com/dp/1501172700/ )