5 ms·

OTOH, all reasons are cons... an expert in an esoteric system with none of those will be paid her weight in gold by the fewer employers in need of a very finite

OTOH, all reasons are cons... an expert in an esoteric system with none of those will be paid her weight in gold by the fewer employers in need of a very finite resource... while js programmers are a dime a dozen.

bdcravens 7y ago
I definitely see better rates for CF contracting. I’m sure the same is true of FORTRAN.
- guitarbill 7y ago
  Weirdly enough, this isn't necessarily true. Articles keep popping up about a shortage of FORTRAN or COBOL programmers. Yet when you look into it, they pay comparatively poorly... which explains the "shortage". I think this might be because there's still enough retired folks willing to contract a bit on the side. (And FORTRAN is not so bad.) On the other hand, you can definitely demand obscene hourly rates for old, clunky stuff most people don't want to touch. Sharepoint is one example I know of. (Not to imply CF is clunky, but the worse the workflow, the higher the rate, obviously.)
  - JohnFen 7y ago
    > Yet when you look into it, they pay comparatively poorly Hmm. I know this is completely anecdotal, but the two software engineers I know who are COBOL experts also happen to be the best-paid software engineers I know, and not by a little.
Someone1234 7y ago
If one language is expensive, and another language is cheap which do you think employers will be building NEW software in? I've seen people who follow the strategy you prescribe, and while they did make above market while they helped companies migrate away from [dying technology] they eventually became unemployable. It simply isn't a good long term play, for either employee or employer.
- bargl 7y ago
  It's a good endgame for an engineer. If you've got experience with X language and you're planning your exit from the industry. Better yet, be the guy who can upgrade a system like that from X language to the newer one that can be maintained by the your new wave of engineers.
- mgamache 7y ago
  In the long run we are all dead. -- John Maynard Keynes For some, the short term payoff is the right strategy. Also how is it not good for the employer? Assuming they could fire the person (or just hire him/her as contract).
- devoply 7y ago
  Why not try to do both and become an expert in the system your employer is migrating to as well while you are at it.
PPPPPPPPr 7y ago
We hear stories about old men with arcane computing skills who snag multiple 100k consulting contracts a year. Because they're fun to read about. If you want to know the truth, go on glassdoor and find out what a COBOL or RPGIII dev makes out in middle america. We're talking 40k-60k. Really, these guys worked in a typical 80s/90s greenscreen outfit. They never retrained out of laziness. They saw everyone get fucked on the dot com bubble and then they stayed at their job which never changed. I worked with these guys. I always use them to remind myself that no matter how the powers that be kiss my ass right now they'll have no problem paying me shit even if it means incredibly short sighted moves like sticking with a system with an ever dwindling set of devs. I put in a small amount of study time refreshing myself on this tech.. waiting for the day they're all dead and I can name my price. I'm not counting on it though.
sli 7y ago
Old, esoteric systems also require knowledge of the system, which can be practically impossible to get from the outside. This is why learning COBOL in 2019 probably won't get you a six-figure job maintaining old bank mainframes. You may know the language but if you have no clue how these bank mainframes work outside of using COBOL, you aren't going to be a great candidate.

bdcravens 7y ago

I definitely see better rates for CF contracting. I’m sure the same is true of FORTRAN.

guitarbill 7y ago
Weirdly enough, this isn't necessarily true. Articles keep popping up about a shortage of FORTRAN or COBOL programmers. Yet when you look into it, they pay comparatively poorly... which explains the "shortage". I think this might be because there's still enough retired folks willing to contract a bit on the side. (And FORTRAN is not so bad.) On the other hand, you can definitely demand obscene hourly rates for old, clunky stuff most people don't want to touch. Sharepoint is one example I know of. (Not to imply CF is clunky, but the worse the workflow, the higher the rate, obviously.)
- JohnFen 7y ago
  > Yet when you look into it, they pay comparatively poorly Hmm. I know this is completely anecdotal, but the two software engineers I know who are COBOL experts also happen to be the best-paid software engineers I know, and not by a little.

Someone1234 7y ago

If one language is expensive, and another language is cheap which do you think employers will be building NEW software in? I've seen people who follow the strategy you prescribe, and while they did make above market while they helped companies migrate away from [dying technology] they eventually became unemployable. It simply isn't a good long term play, for either employee or employer.

bargl 7y ago
It's a good endgame for an engineer. If you've got experience with X language and you're planning your exit from the industry. Better yet, be the guy who can upgrade a system like that from X language to the newer one that can be maintained by the your new wave of engineers.
mgamache 7y ago
In the long run we are all dead. -- John Maynard Keynes For some, the short term payoff is the right strategy. Also how is it not good for the employer? Assuming they could fire the person (or just hire him/her as contract).
devoply 7y ago
Why not try to do both and become an expert in the system your employer is migrating to as well while you are at it.

PPPPPPPPr 7y ago

We hear stories about old men with arcane computing skills who snag multiple 100k consulting contracts a year. Because they're fun to read about. If you want to know the truth, go on glassdoor and find out what a COBOL or RPGIII dev makes out in middle america. We're talking 40k-60k. Really, these guys worked in a typical 80s/90s greenscreen outfit. They never retrained out of laziness. They saw everyone get fucked on the dot com bubble and then they stayed at their job which never changed. I worked with these guys. I always use them to remind myself that no matter how the powers that be kiss my ass right now they'll have no problem paying me shit even if it means incredibly short sighted moves like sticking with a system with an ever dwindling set of devs. I put in a small amount of study time refreshing myself on this tech.. waiting for the day they're all dead and I can name my price. I'm not counting on it though.

sli 7y ago

Old, esoteric systems also require knowledge of the system, which can be practically impossible to get from the outside. This is why learning COBOL in 2019 probably won't get you a six-figure job maintaining old bank mainframes. You may know the language but if you have no clue how these bank mainframes work outside of using COBOL, you aren't going to be a great candidate.