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> that's a choice someone makes If you have a vastly non-tribalistic society (.e.g. western society) and introduce masses of highly tribalistic immigrants then

by sprash 7y ago

> that's a choice someone makes If you have a vastly non-tribalistic society (.e.g. western society) and introduce masses of highly tribalistic immigrants then the host society has no choice but to either become tribalistic itself or die. There is no choice. The survivor will always be the strongest, most ruthless, brutal and tribalisitc tribe. We had a great technology that shielded us from that kind of tribal conflict and allowed people to care about unrelated hobbies like exploring the universe: Borders. But it seems those became out of fashion.

duxup 7y ago
Humans are prone tribalism, that's a human trait. I feel like your comments here effectively prove that.
Apocryphon 7y ago
Yes, because the Sicilians who left during the struggles of Italian unification, the Irish who left during the wars of independence against the British, and the Germans and other Europeans who left during the revolutions of 1848 to enter the Americas were not tribal at all.
- sprash 7y ago
  Of course they were tibal. They caused lots of problems and the result is a popular culture defined by McDonalds and MickeyMouse.
  - llamathrowaway 7y ago
    Ironically there are not only one, but two, Disneylands in Tokyo, and they seem to be popular among locals. There also seem to be more McDonald’s per capita in Japan than Europe. And don’t get me started on faux-European food in Japan (they do taste nice, though.) So no, Japan, which is very well integrated into the global economy, is not that different from the west in terms of cultural consumption. People who still treat Japan as the mysterious land of samurais (ninjas seem outdated) and kabukis, unadulterated by western influence will, on their visit to Japan, struggle in the same way Japanese tourists struggled in Paris. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_syndrome https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_syndrome
    - sprash 7y ago
      Indeed, the main feature of a unsophiscated culture catering to the lowest common denominator is that it is rootless. Japan or anyone adopting it is not a good thing.
      - Apocryphon 7y ago
        Japan has been adopting outside influences for over a century. Not to mention, it has been handily exporting its own culture. So it has contributed to the global pop culture that you are denouncing. It is complicit. And yet, it is hardly the death of high culture as you predict.

by sprash 7y ago

duxup 7y ago

Humans are prone tribalism, that's a human trait. I feel like your comments here effectively prove that.

Apocryphon 7y ago

Yes, because the Sicilians who left during the struggles of Italian unification, the Irish who left during the wars of independence against the British, and the Germans and other Europeans who left during the revolutions of 1848 to enter the Americas were not tribal at all.

sprash 7y ago
Of course they were tibal. They caused lots of problems and the result is a popular culture defined by McDonalds and MickeyMouse.
- llamathrowaway 7y ago
  Ironically there are not only one, but two, Disneylands in Tokyo, and they seem to be popular among locals. There also seem to be more McDonald’s per capita in Japan than Europe. And don’t get me started on faux-European food in Japan (they do taste nice, though.) So no, Japan, which is very well integrated into the global economy, is not that different from the west in terms of cultural consumption. People who still treat Japan as the mysterious land of samurais (ninjas seem outdated) and kabukis, unadulterated by western influence will, on their visit to Japan, struggle in the same way Japanese tourists struggled in Paris. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_syndrome https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_syndrome
  - sprash 7y ago
    Indeed, the main feature of a unsophiscated culture catering to the lowest common denominator is that it is rootless. Japan or anyone adopting it is not a good thing.
    - Apocryphon 7y ago
      Japan has been adopting outside influences for over a century. Not to mention, it has been handily exporting its own culture. So it has contributed to the global pop culture that you are denouncing. It is complicit. And yet, it is hardly the death of high culture as you predict.