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The crime free nature of Japan will be a thing of a past. The quality of life for natives will decrease vastly. Wages will be pushed further down. Having worked

by sprash 7y ago

The crime free nature of Japan will be a thing of a past. The quality of life for natives will decrease vastly. Wages will be pushed further down. Having worked together on many projects with Japanese I know immigrants have nothing of value to offer to the Japanese people. Personally I'd rather live in a homogeneous society having seen how multiculturalism has decreased the quality of life for everybody in my country. I can see why the Japanese would want to avoid that. I hope they revolt.

duxup 7y ago
>I know immigrants have nothing of value to offer to the Japanese people. I don't know how that makes sense. People can't offer people anything outside of some described cultural boundaries?
- sprash 7y ago
  Having seen how Japanese work I know that the work ethic, reliability and efficiency can not be matched by anybody else on the globe. Foreigners would drag down the average which mathematically means nothing else than effectively extracting resources from the host society. The exchange of ideas can always happen via tourism, Internet, business or whatever. Multiculturalism has nothing to do with the exchange of ideas. In the best case it means a culture of the lowest common denominator (McDonalds and Mickey Mouse) in the worst case it means eternal tribal war (Afghanistan, Middle East).
  - duxup 7y ago
    You keep saying "multiculturalism" but I'm not sure what you mean. You talk about tribalism and war, that's a choice someone makes, and that's on those who choose it.
    - sprash 7y ago
      > that's a choice someone makes If you have a vastly non-tribalistic society (.e.g. western society) and introduce masses of highly tribalistic immigrants then the host society has no choice but to either become tribalistic itself or die. There is no choice. The survivor will always be the strongest, most ruthless, brutal and tribalisitc tribe. We had a great technology that shielded us from that kind of tribal conflict and allowed people to care about unrelated hobbies like exploring the universe: Borders. But it seems those became out of fashion.
      - duxup 7y ago
        Humans are prone tribalism, that's a human trait. I feel like your comments here effectively prove that.
      - Apocryphon 7y ago
        Yes, because the Sicilians who left during the struggles of Italian unification, the Irish who left during the wars of independence against the British, and the Germans and other Europeans who left during the revolutions of 1848 to enter the Americas were not tribal at all.
        sprash 7y ago
        Of course they were tibal. They caused lots of problems and the result is a popular culture defined by McDonalds and MickeyMouse.
        llamathrowaway 7y ago
        Ironically there are not only one, but two, Disneylands in Tokyo, and they seem to be popular among locals. There also seem to be more McDonald’s per capita in Japan than Europe. And don’t get me started on faux-European food in Japan (they do taste nice, though.) So no, Japan, which is very well integrated into the global economy, is not that different from the west in terms of cultural consumption. People who still treat Japan as the mysterious land of samurais (ninjas seem outdated) and kabukis, unadulterated by western influence will, on their visit to Japan, struggle in the same way Japanese tourists struggled in Paris. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_syndrome https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_syndrome
        sprash 7y ago
        Indeed, the main feature of a unsophiscated culture catering to the lowest common denominator is that it is rootless. Japan or anyone adopting it is not a good thing.
        7y ago
  - travv0 7y ago
    > Having seen how Japanese work I know that the work ethic, reliability and efficiency can not be matched by anybody else on the globe. You certainly haven't worked in a Japanese office then. It's also strange that you attribute the efficiency of their service industry to the workers being Japanese (though a good chunk of them actually aren't) and not simply to the techniques the workers are trained to use, the efficient layout of the stores, the equipment used, etc.
  - sctb 7y ago
    Please don't do nationalistic flamewar here. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
blub 7y ago
While instinctively I am a bit repulsed by your comment, rationally I have to grudgingly admit that you are probably right. It's undeniable that diversity offers some advantages, but if the mixing is done in an uncontrolled way as it typically is and a certain ratio of natives to immigrants is reached there will be conflict, friction and misery. Look to Western Europe for what might await, although Western Europe has failed quite spectacularly at multiculturalism in a way that's probably unattainable by the Japanese :)

by sprash 7y ago

duxup 7y ago

>I know immigrants have nothing of value to offer to the Japanese people. I don't know how that makes sense. People can't offer people anything outside of some described cultural boundaries?

sprash 7y ago
Having seen how Japanese work I know that the work ethic, reliability and efficiency can not be matched by anybody else on the globe. Foreigners would drag down the average which mathematically means nothing else than effectively extracting resources from the host society. The exchange of ideas can always happen via tourism, Internet, business or whatever. Multiculturalism has nothing to do with the exchange of ideas. In the best case it means a culture of the lowest common denominator (McDonalds and Mickey Mouse) in the worst case it means eternal tribal war (Afghanistan, Middle East).
- duxup 7y ago
  You keep saying "multiculturalism" but I'm not sure what you mean. You talk about tribalism and war, that's a choice someone makes, and that's on those who choose it.
  - sprash 7y ago
    > that's a choice someone makes If you have a vastly non-tribalistic society (.e.g. western society) and introduce masses of highly tribalistic immigrants then the host society has no choice but to either become tribalistic itself or die. There is no choice. The survivor will always be the strongest, most ruthless, brutal and tribalisitc tribe. We had a great technology that shielded us from that kind of tribal conflict and allowed people to care about unrelated hobbies like exploring the universe: Borders. But it seems those became out of fashion.
    - duxup 7y ago
      Humans are prone tribalism, that's a human trait. I feel like your comments here effectively prove that.
    - Apocryphon 7y ago
      Yes, because the Sicilians who left during the struggles of Italian unification, the Irish who left during the wars of independence against the British, and the Germans and other Europeans who left during the revolutions of 1848 to enter the Americas were not tribal at all.
      - sprash 7y ago
        Of course they were tibal. They caused lots of problems and the result is a popular culture defined by McDonalds and MickeyMouse.
        llamathrowaway 7y ago
        Ironically there are not only one, but two, Disneylands in Tokyo, and they seem to be popular among locals. There also seem to be more McDonald’s per capita in Japan than Europe. And don’t get me started on faux-European food in Japan (they do taste nice, though.) So no, Japan, which is very well integrated into the global economy, is not that different from the west in terms of cultural consumption. People who still treat Japan as the mysterious land of samurais (ninjas seem outdated) and kabukis, unadulterated by western influence will, on their visit to Japan, struggle in the same way Japanese tourists struggled in Paris. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_syndrome https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_syndrome
        sprash 7y ago
        Indeed, the main feature of a unsophiscated culture catering to the lowest common denominator is that it is rootless. Japan or anyone adopting it is not a good thing.
        7y ago
- travv0 7y ago
  > Having seen how Japanese work I know that the work ethic, reliability and efficiency can not be matched by anybody else on the globe. You certainly haven't worked in a Japanese office then. It's also strange that you attribute the efficiency of their service industry to the workers being Japanese (though a good chunk of them actually aren't) and not simply to the techniques the workers are trained to use, the efficient layout of the stores, the equipment used, etc.
- sctb 7y ago
  Please don't do nationalistic flamewar here. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

blub 7y ago

While instinctively I am a bit repulsed by your comment, rationally I have to grudgingly admit that you are probably right. It's undeniable that diversity offers some advantages, but if the mixing is done in an uncontrolled way as it typically is and a certain ratio of natives to immigrants is reached there will be conflict, friction and misery. Look to Western Europe for what might await, although Western Europe has failed quite spectacularly at multiculturalism in a way that's probably unattainable by the Japanese :)