5 ms·

People in higher social class have an exaggerated belief that they are better

34 points by whack 7y ago

bigred100 7y ago
One unfortunate aspect of this is that many upper class/upper middle class people I’ve met can become insane with rage if you point out that their self-assessment is wrong. Eg a mediocre student with successful academic parents may dismiss something as trivial, and when you ask him if he can prove the thing he just said is trivial, he’ll start throwing his arms in the air and yelling and stomp out of the room (personally seen more than once).
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- theoh 7y ago
  This is probably narcissistic rage, and it would be a result of the narcissistic injury of being less intelligent than the parents. There are lots of other potential causes of narcissistic injury, but realizing that one is relatively stupid can do it for people of any class background.
  - bigred100 7y ago
    The guy in question isn’t even stupid, average to above average for a difficult research lab in a decent PhD program, which means smart, but through some bizarre mental problems tries to convince himself and others that award winning work by internationally recognized people 20+years into their field is trivial, sort of slacks off and spins his wheels chasing low hanging fruit, and gets mad if you say this
    - theoh 7y ago
      Pretty sure these "bizarre mental problems" are a manifestation of rivalrous narcissism. Dismissing others in order to feel better about your own intelligence is a symptom of that. It sounds like he would like to be a heavy intellectual hitter but isn't, which is all I meant by relatively stupid. Narcissism involves a kind of fraudulent, artificial self-image. Claiming something is trivial and then not being able to follow through on that is exactly the kind of bluster I'd expect from a narcissist. The slacking off fits the profile, and the "gets mad" is also a narcissistic trait. To return to my original point: this is not about class origins, it sound's like it is about having a chip on one's shoulder about intellectual achievement. There are many other things that can play that role in narcissism, including coming from an underprivileged background. It's really important to develop a proper analysis of these personality problems. The typical engineer has a blind spot in this area—they can see when there's an obvious problem but they don't try to build up a deeper intuition for the dynamics behind it.
dev_dull 7y ago
This is such a silly study. What exactly were they trying to prove? Water == wet? Wealth is power, power gets to your head.
- PhasmaFelis 7y ago
  Don't you think that the people the study is about would say the opposite? Would insist that their social status is deserved because of their superior ability? Studies like this give us factual ammunition against those people. Besides, it's not a bad idea to study things that seem obvious. Sometimes you get surprising results.
  - dev_dull 7y ago
    If they deceived themselves I would expect them to say that. If they are not deceived then I expect them to say something different.
ve55 7y ago
From the actual paper: >Furthermore, all three forms of social class were positively associated with actual rank, indicating that those with relatively high social class did objectively better on the flashcard game relative to their lower-class counterparts Looking at the table of correlations on page 7 in some cases shows the exact opposite of what the article constantly hints at: that performance was in no way correlated with social/financial class. Glad to see quality reporting as usual. (Edit: Yes, the general effect still exists, just look at the paper. It's still bad reporting) If you're interested in learning, ignore articles like this and glance over the actual papers instead: https://www.apa.org/pubs/journals/releases/psp-pspi0000187.pdf https://www.apa.org/pubs/journals/releases/psp-pspi0000187.p...
- Phemist 7y ago
  The paper itself concludes that > Furthermore, all three forms of social class were positively associated with actual rank, indicating that those with relatively high social class did objectively better on the flashcard game relative to their lower-class counterparts (rs range = .04 to .20, all ps < .001). in line with the article. The paper reported on statistical or percentile rank. Are you perhaps confusing it for colloquial "ranking"?
  - ve55 7y ago
    I view the above article as trying to convey to readers that there was no positive correlation between social class and actual rank, when in fact there was, which they attempt to mislead readers about to the greatest extent that they can without outright lying.
    - thfuran 7y ago
      >I view the above article as trying to convey to readers that there was no positive correlation between social class and actual rank Well, I think it is clear from the title alone that it is not making that argument.
      - 7y ago
randyrand 7y ago
Would the same be true for smart people? or attractive people? probably.

34 points by whack 7y ago

One unfortunate aspect of this is that many upper class/upper middle class people I’ve met can become insane with rage if you point out that their self-assessment is wrong. Eg a mediocre student with successful academic parents may dismiss something as trivial, and when you ask him if he can prove the thing he just said is trivial, he’ll start throwing his arms in the air and yelling and stomp out of the room (personally seen more than once).

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
theoh 7y ago
This is probably narcissistic rage, and it would be a result of the narcissistic injury of being less intelligent than the parents. There are lots of other potential causes of narcissistic injury, but realizing that one is relatively stupid can do it for people of any class background.
- bigred100 7y ago
  The guy in question isn’t even stupid, average to above average for a difficult research lab in a decent PhD program, which means smart, but through some bizarre mental problems tries to convince himself and others that award winning work by internationally recognized people 20+years into their field is trivial, sort of slacks off and spins his wheels chasing low hanging fruit, and gets mad if you say this
  - theoh 7y ago
    Pretty sure these "bizarre mental problems" are a manifestation of rivalrous narcissism. Dismissing others in order to feel better about your own intelligence is a symptom of that. It sounds like he would like to be a heavy intellectual hitter but isn't, which is all I meant by relatively stupid. Narcissism involves a kind of fraudulent, artificial self-image. Claiming something is trivial and then not being able to follow through on that is exactly the kind of bluster I'd expect from a narcissist. The slacking off fits the profile, and the "gets mad" is also a narcissistic trait. To return to my original point: this is not about class origins, it sound's like it is about having a chip on one's shoulder about intellectual achievement. There are many other things that can play that role in narcissism, including coming from an underprivileged background. It's really important to develop a proper analysis of these personality problems. The typical engineer has a blind spot in this area—they can see when there's an obvious problem but they don't try to build up a deeper intuition for the dynamics behind it.

dev_dull 7y ago

This is such a silly study. What exactly were they trying to prove? Water == wet? Wealth is power, power gets to your head.

PhasmaFelis 7y ago
Don't you think that the people the study is about would say the opposite? Would insist that their social status is deserved because of their superior ability? Studies like this give us factual ammunition against those people. Besides, it's not a bad idea to study things that seem obvious. Sometimes you get surprising results.
- dev_dull 7y ago
  If they deceived themselves I would expect them to say that. If they are not deceived then I expect them to say something different.

ve55 7y ago

From the actual paper: >Furthermore, all three forms of social class were positively associated with actual rank, indicating that those with relatively high social class did objectively better on the flashcard game relative to their lower-class counterparts Looking at the table of correlations on page 7 in some cases shows the exact opposite of what the article constantly hints at: that performance was in no way correlated with social/financial class. Glad to see quality reporting as usual. (Edit: Yes, the general effect still exists, just look at the paper. It's still bad reporting) If you're interested in learning, ignore articles like this and glance over the actual papers instead: https://www.apa.org/pubs/journals/releases/psp-pspi0000187.pdf https://www.apa.org/pubs/journals/releases/psp-pspi0000187.p...

Phemist 7y ago
The paper itself concludes that > Furthermore, all three forms of social class were positively associated with actual rank, indicating that those with relatively high social class did objectively better on the flashcard game relative to their lower-class counterparts (rs range = .04 to .20, all ps < .001). in line with the article. The paper reported on statistical or percentile rank. Are you perhaps confusing it for colloquial "ranking"?
- ve55 7y ago
  I view the above article as trying to convey to readers that there was no positive correlation between social class and actual rank, when in fact there was, which they attempt to mislead readers about to the greatest extent that they can without outright lying.
  - thfuran 7y ago
    >I view the above article as trying to convey to readers that there was no positive correlation between social class and actual rank Well, I think it is clear from the title alone that it is not making that argument.
    - 7y ago

randyrand 7y ago

Would the same be true for smart people? or attractive people? probably.