4 ms·

Were this to occur in an authoritarian state people would harp on about a brainwashed population. Get the suspicion no one feels as strongly when it happens in

by A2017U1 7y ago

Were this to occur in an authoritarian state people would harp on about a brainwashed population. Get the suspicion no one feels as strongly when it happens in the UK despite being the exact same ballgame.

rorykoehler 7y ago
UK have proven they have a brainwashed population (at least 50%) through brexit. I'm pretty sure that's not up for debate anymore
- 0815test 7y ago
  "Brainwashing" would require the populace to actually have a normally-functioning brain. I'd say this is what brexit has clearly disproven.
  - dijit 7y ago
    I think this is precisely the opposite of true. "Functioning brain" is normally synonymous with critical thinking skills in conversations like this. If you've been brainwashed then you've had critical thinking skills intentionally eroded from you by a third party (in regards to something specific usually). In context of the UK and especially in the context of brexit you are dealing with a population that has had 3 decades(!!) of anti-eu propaganda (majority of which are literal lies[0]) from the entire newspaper industry (and also by governments/ministers wishing to blame their own failures on an externality) with no refutation from any other authority. This is the very definition of brainwashing and I think it's actually amazing that 49% of the population saw through it. [0]: https://blogs.ec.europa.eu/ECintheUK/euromyths-a-z-index/ https://blogs.ec.europa.eu/ECintheUK/euromyths-a-z-index/
    - segfaultbuserr 7y ago
      > In context of the UK and especially in the context of brexit you are dealing with a population that has had 3 decades(!!) of anti-eu propaganda Also, rorykoehler mentioned, > I grew up watching the Murdoch media mafia systematically dismantle trust in the EU. I find it interesting, as I was never aware of these media empires in Europe, especially, what does Murdoch do in Europe? Do you have more introductory articles on this issue?
      - rorykoehler 7y ago
        > what does Murdoch do in Europe? Same thing he did with fox news. Lies, lies and outrage to promote his particularly regressive world view. Deny climate change, lie about EU, spin hate stories of scrounging immigrants, promote war in Iraq. You name it.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- ben_w 7y ago
  It’s very easy to other people in that way, but totally counterproductive. Apart from anything else, all of “them” think the same about “us”, and say so loudly, and from what I’ve observed [1] that appears to be just as true whichever group you’re calling “them”. [1] sampling bias alert
  - rorykoehler 7y ago
    I grew up watching the Murdoch media mafia systematically dismantle trust in the EU. You ask a majority (I wouldn't be surprised if it was 90%+) of pro Brexit voters what about the EU caused them to vote out and they will have zero factual reasons to offer. It's textbook brainwashing. You don't have to look very deep to understand this.
    - ben_w 7y ago
      Yes, and it’s still counterproductive to say so, because they all believe you and I the brainwashing victims. For all I know, you might just be venting frustration right now (I certainly do so sometimes), but if your goal is to change the path of the UK, you need to change their minds — being right isn’t enough.
      - rorykoehler 7y ago
        My goal was to reply to the comment of OP. You're right though
  - 0815test 7y ago
    It's not about "othering" at all. We were discussing brexit... so why haven't the UK left the EU yet, like they said they would? Because that doesn't work, can't work, and everyone knows this. It would be a disaster to simply "leave" in a totally unplanned way, after a mere months to a few years in preparation - as a matter of fact, the sorts of commitments that the UK has entered into as part of EU membership would require a very long time to gracefully unwind. And everyone with half a functioning brain was 100% aware of this before the vote, as well! The "Leave" vote was totally self-defeating (then again, so was the referendum itself, but ordinary Brits had no choice on that!)

rorykoehler 7y ago

UK have proven they have a brainwashed population (at least 50%) through brexit. I'm pretty sure that's not up for debate anymore

0815test 7y ago
"Brainwashing" would require the populace to actually have a normally-functioning brain. I'd say this is what brexit has clearly disproven.
- dijit 7y ago
  I think this is precisely the opposite of true. "Functioning brain" is normally synonymous with critical thinking skills in conversations like this. If you've been brainwashed then you've had critical thinking skills intentionally eroded from you by a third party (in regards to something specific usually). In context of the UK and especially in the context of brexit you are dealing with a population that has had 3 decades(!!) of anti-eu propaganda (majority of which are literal lies[0]) from the entire newspaper industry (and also by governments/ministers wishing to blame their own failures on an externality) with no refutation from any other authority. This is the very definition of brainwashing and I think it's actually amazing that 49% of the population saw through it. [0]: https://blogs.ec.europa.eu/ECintheUK/euromyths-a-z-index/ https://blogs.ec.europa.eu/ECintheUK/euromyths-a-z-index/
  - segfaultbuserr 7y ago
    > In context of the UK and especially in the context of brexit you are dealing with a population that has had 3 decades(!!) of anti-eu propaganda Also, rorykoehler mentioned, > I grew up watching the Murdoch media mafia systematically dismantle trust in the EU. I find it interesting, as I was never aware of these media empires in Europe, especially, what does Murdoch do in Europe? Do you have more introductory articles on this issue?
    - rorykoehler 7y ago
      > what does Murdoch do in Europe? Same thing he did with fox news. Lies, lies and outrage to promote his particularly regressive world view. Deny climate change, lie about EU, spin hate stories of scrounging immigrants, promote war in Iraq. You name it.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
ben_w 7y ago
It’s very easy to other people in that way, but totally counterproductive. Apart from anything else, all of “them” think the same about “us”, and say so loudly, and from what I’ve observed [1] that appears to be just as true whichever group you’re calling “them”. [1] sampling bias alert
- rorykoehler 7y ago
  I grew up watching the Murdoch media mafia systematically dismantle trust in the EU. You ask a majority (I wouldn't be surprised if it was 90%+) of pro Brexit voters what about the EU caused them to vote out and they will have zero factual reasons to offer. It's textbook brainwashing. You don't have to look very deep to understand this.
  - ben_w 7y ago
    Yes, and it’s still counterproductive to say so, because they all believe you and I the brainwashing victims. For all I know, you might just be venting frustration right now (I certainly do so sometimes), but if your goal is to change the path of the UK, you need to change their minds — being right isn’t enough.
    - rorykoehler 7y ago
      My goal was to reply to the comment of OP. You're right though
- 0815test 7y ago
  It's not about "othering" at all. We were discussing brexit... so why haven't the UK left the EU yet, like they said they would? Because that doesn't work, can't work, and everyone knows this. It would be a disaster to simply "leave" in a totally unplanned way, after a mere months to a few years in preparation - as a matter of fact, the sorts of commitments that the UK has entered into as part of EU membership would require a very long time to gracefully unwind. And everyone with half a functioning brain was 100% aware of this before the vote, as well! The "Leave" vote was totally self-defeating (then again, so was the referendum itself, but ordinary Brits had no choice on that!)