4 ms·

This makes no sense. Moving emphasis from Production (work) to Consumption (leisure) increases carbon usage, and halts progress towards more sustainable technol

This makes no sense. Moving emphasis from Production (work) to Consumption (leisure) increases carbon usage, and halts progress towards more sustainable technologies and conservative behaviours. Climate progress takes effort not entertainment.

mrec 7y ago
Why does leisure have to mean consumption? And isn't consumption necessarily limited to the amount produced? I wasn't particularly impressed by TFA, but I don't understand this criticism of it.
- mwilcox 7y ago
  Well, you still need to consume, eat, house yourself etc. Any situation where you're not paying for that without a productive output is one where you're increasing the ratio of consumption to production. Of course not all work is productive, but solving inefficiencies is _work_ not leisure
  - qplex 7y ago
    Most work isn't aimed at making technological progress towards a more ecological or otherwise better future. Most work is also not aimed at food production or housing anymore because of technology.
    - mrec 7y ago
      A large proportion of work is aimed at housing, but for entirely the wrong reasons. Housing costs in first world countries these days generally expand to consume available income, via land price inflation. Actual build cost - "production" - is a minor piece of the pie.
jefflombardjr 7y ago
That's assuming all work is valuable (and productive). There are swaths of jobs that could be eliminated in favor of automation. I think the most sustainable long term approach is to aim for efficiency. No need to have people commute to an admin job that could easily be done by software. That being said, we need to also strive for sustainable consumption.
ripsawridge 7y ago
Yeah, my leisure is running, meditation, hiking, playing guitar. Aside from driving to hike on occasion (or train), I don't consume more.
- mwilcox 7y ago
  You don't drive to the mountain when you go for a hike or wear shoes when you go running?
  - jchanimal 7y ago
    You can do an awful lot of that before you start throwing off waste at even a fraction of the rate of a fast food restaurant or other small business.
    - jefflombardjr 7y ago
      I would agree: https://www.mitpressjournals.org/doi/abs/10.1162/152638001316881395 https://www.mitpressjournals.org/doi/abs/10.1162/15263800131...
  - antisthenes 7y ago
    That doesn't even begin to compare to commuting daily to bullshit jobs.

mrec 7y ago

Why does leisure have to mean consumption? And isn't consumption necessarily limited to the amount produced? I wasn't particularly impressed by TFA, but I don't understand this criticism of it.

mwilcox 7y ago
Well, you still need to consume, eat, house yourself etc. Any situation where you're not paying for that without a productive output is one where you're increasing the ratio of consumption to production. Of course not all work is productive, but solving inefficiencies is _work_ not leisure
- qplex 7y ago
  Most work isn't aimed at making technological progress towards a more ecological or otherwise better future. Most work is also not aimed at food production or housing anymore because of technology.
  - mrec 7y ago
    A large proportion of work is aimed at housing, but for entirely the wrong reasons. Housing costs in first world countries these days generally expand to consume available income, via land price inflation. Actual build cost - "production" - is a minor piece of the pie.

jefflombardjr 7y ago

That's assuming all work is valuable (and productive). There are swaths of jobs that could be eliminated in favor of automation. I think the most sustainable long term approach is to aim for efficiency. No need to have people commute to an admin job that could easily be done by software. That being said, we need to also strive for sustainable consumption.

ripsawridge 7y ago

Yeah, my leisure is running, meditation, hiking, playing guitar. Aside from driving to hike on occasion (or train), I don't consume more.

mwilcox 7y ago
You don't drive to the mountain when you go for a hike or wear shoes when you go running?
- jchanimal 7y ago
  You can do an awful lot of that before you start throwing off waste at even a fraction of the rate of a fast food restaurant or other small business.
  - jefflombardjr 7y ago
    I would agree: https://www.mitpressjournals.org/doi/abs/10.1162/152638001316881395 https://www.mitpressjournals.org/doi/abs/10.1162/15263800131...
- antisthenes 7y ago
  That doesn't even begin to compare to commuting daily to bullshit jobs.