6 ms·

> Yes, she is "all" Japanese. She grew up in Japan, with her Japanese mother, attending Japanese schools. This is the subtle bigotry toward people who are "half

by hh3k0 7y ago

> Yes, she is "all" Japanese. She grew up in Japan, with her Japanese mother, attending Japanese schools. This is the subtle bigotry toward people who are "half" (as they're called in Japan) rather than "dual". Many Japanese will always consider them "less Japanese" or outsiders. Just because she qualifies as Japanese from your point of view doesn't mean that the Japanese have to view it like you. White savior complex much? I've spoken with Japanese friends about hafus and their point of view was that people do not materialize out of thin air, but rather are the genetic conglomerate of their ancestors (which is hard to argue against) and thus links in a chain -- which would make her less Japanese. And that seems fine to me, as long as she is not discriminated against for being viewed less Japanese.

nabla9 7y ago
Perceiving someone as 'not one of us' without discrimination is very rare, especially in Japan. Basically all Japanese citizens perceived as 'others' face heavy discrimination. Korean minority, burakumin, Ainu, etc.
Tor3 7y ago
> but rather are the genetic conglomerate of their ancestors (which is hard to argue against) and thus links in a chain But that's exactly it. It's not like that. Or shouldn't be. That's not what makes a person a part of a group (town, city, region, country, etc). It's a constraining, and wrong way of looking at things. It's something to grow out of. Heck, in my hometown we consider someone as 'from' this town (to translate the term we use, approximately) even if they're not born here, maybe they even moved here in their twenties, and maybe from another continent, maybe looking totally different; if they just 'fit in' and find their comfortable place here. If they bring on something new (combining culture/music from their background with something existing), even better. They are 100% part of what's us. Except for those of the never non-existent, but still tiny minority of the "you're not one of us" group. Those telling young girls (as did an old woman the other day, not in this town but out in the countryside) "you can't wear that traditional costume, you're not one of us" (the girl's grandfather was adopted from some place, or some such).
- hh3k0 7y ago
  It is revolting how terribly arrogant your comment is, really. They don't have a "wrong way of looking at things" simply because it is not your way. And your way is by no means the way.
  - Tor3 7y ago
    I should maybe add 'in my opinion'. But in truth, I really believe it's wrong. It does not lead to anything positive, quite the contrary. And I've never seen a community become worse by moving into a more modern, open view on diversity and acceptance. And to focus: I really, truly mean that the idea that what "makes" you (and that's what I was commenting on) is your ancestors, is just wrong. Genetic chain? Well, so what, we're all a part of a genetic chain, and the same one at that, which goes back nearly four billion years. Take one step back to get the overview and it matters nothing (nor should it) who your father was.
    - zlakb 7y ago
      It leads to something positive to them, it seems. "more modern, open view on diversity and acceptance" is not positive by itself. Unless you're looking from the point of view of those entering the country, which are people that nationals don't have to care about.
      - Tor3 7y ago
        I'm actually taking the point of view from the nationals, as you call it. With people coming from other places on earth the area I'm currently living in became a good place to live. I got the nicest next-door neighbours it's possible to imagine, for example. My wife cried when they moved to another place (to get more space). The city center is also a vastly more dynamic and interesting place to be than it used to be back when everything was monotone. Back when the only non-native language you could hear was a little bit of English, and the occasional tourists from nearby countries. Now there are more than a hundred languages spoken here. It works fantastically well, but it demands that you avoid creating ghettos for immigrants, as has been the unfortunate expericence of some cities elsewhere in Europe.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
zlakb 7y ago
If you said the same thing of a European country your comment would be flagged already.
- blub 7y ago
  I don't know how you meant that, but this is absolutely the case in every European country that I know of. You are considered one of them if you have the appropriate skin color, name, accent, etc. This is so deeply ingrained in the human psyche that it's nuts to even fight it. It will only change when a large enough part of the population will have the "wrong" skin color, name or accent. Or you get large scale open conflicts, I guess, there's no guarantees of a happy end, on the contrary.
distantaidenn 7y ago
That's exactly the problem though. She is being veiwed as less Japanese and subsequently discriminated against.
village-idiot 7y ago
This is the conflict that arises when the name for the group applies to a nationality and a distinctly identifiable racial group as well. Some will use “Japanese” to talk about those that are legally and culturally from Japan, and others will use the word to reference those that are genetically from Japan.
slothtrop 7y ago
Congrats, you just described racism. "All Japanese" in this instance refers to the nation and by extension parent culture, not ethnicity.
magpi3 7y ago
If mixed ethnicity makes you less Japanese than of course you will be discriminated against. At the very least families who want their descendants to be "more" Japanese will resist allowing their children to marry those who are "less" Japanese. That is discrimination. Even the term "less Japanese" sounds like a perjorative in a country so deeply founded on a specific cultural identity. We live in a global world now. Countries that fundamentally tie their culture to ethnicities will someday be a thing of the past. It is just question of how long it will take some countries to accept it. And for the mistakes that the U.S. has made, one thing it has gotten right (for the most part) is its acknowledgement that diversity is a strength and being American has nothing to do with your bloodline. Of course there are racists in the U.S. who would say otherwise, but I think they are short-sighted fools. One of the U.S.'s biggest competitive advantages in a global economy is its (relative) freedom from the historical baggage that weighs down other countries whose national identity is tied to a specific ethnicity or rigid cultural identity.
- blub 7y ago
  "We live in a global world now. Countries that fundamentally tie their culture to ethnicities will someday be a thing of the past. " No we don't and no they won't be. The only countries that are making this mistake are those from Western Europe and the US & co. Others are proud of their heritage, cherish it and fight for their culture. Your utopia may only be true once we become space-faring and encounter other species. Only then our humanity will unite us in spite of our differences. The US... is a darn poor choice of example. Half the population voted for a president that wants to build a wall around Mexico. Half the population are short-sighted fools, are they? The US is rife with ethnic conflict, I used to think it's a success story, but now I think that it's a ticking time bomb.
  - magpi3 7y ago
    I am not describing a utopia. I just do not think, barring some world-wide catastrophe, there is any way you can turn the clock back on globalism at this point. I know people want to go back. People always want to live in the past. Many Trump voters were voting for someone to take them back to the past. Same with Brexit. But go far back enough in the past and you will see everything was once different. The world is changing and that change is pointing in one direction however much people want to fight it.
world32 7y ago
So do you think it's OK for me as a white Englishman to consider a black person born in England to not truly be English? What about for a German to consider Jews to be less German? Is that ok too? Its just their "culture" right? Edit: I suggest you watch this exchange between a black Englishman Gary Young and the white supremacist Richard Spencer. It's nasty stuff right? Him telling the guy "you're not a real Englishman". Yet you have japanese friends who say exactly the same thing about non ethnically Japanese people and you think that's fine? How do you square that circle? https://youtu.be/puJ-arJgkZU https://youtu.be/puJ-arJgkZU

by hh3k0 7y ago

nabla9 7y ago

Perceiving someone as 'not one of us' without discrimination is very rare, especially in Japan. Basically all Japanese citizens perceived as 'others' face heavy discrimination. Korean minority, burakumin, Ainu, etc.

Tor3 7y ago

> but rather are the genetic conglomerate of their ancestors (which is hard to argue against) and thus links in a chain But that's exactly it. It's not like that. Or shouldn't be. That's not what makes a person a part of a group (town, city, region, country, etc). It's a constraining, and wrong way of looking at things. It's something to grow out of. Heck, in my hometown we consider someone as 'from' this town (to translate the term we use, approximately) even if they're not born here, maybe they even moved here in their twenties, and maybe from another continent, maybe looking totally different; if they just 'fit in' and find their comfortable place here. If they bring on something new (combining culture/music from their background with something existing), even better. They are 100% part of what's us. Except for those of the never non-existent, but still tiny minority of the "you're not one of us" group. Those telling young girls (as did an old woman the other day, not in this town but out in the countryside) "you can't wear that traditional costume, you're not one of us" (the girl's grandfather was adopted from some place, or some such).

hh3k0 7y ago
It is revolting how terribly arrogant your comment is, really. They don't have a "wrong way of looking at things" simply because it is not your way. And your way is by no means the way.
- Tor3 7y ago
  I should maybe add 'in my opinion'. But in truth, I really believe it's wrong. It does not lead to anything positive, quite the contrary. And I've never seen a community become worse by moving into a more modern, open view on diversity and acceptance. And to focus: I really, truly mean that the idea that what "makes" you (and that's what I was commenting on) is your ancestors, is just wrong. Genetic chain? Well, so what, we're all a part of a genetic chain, and the same one at that, which goes back nearly four billion years. Take one step back to get the overview and it matters nothing (nor should it) who your father was.
  - zlakb 7y ago
    It leads to something positive to them, it seems. "more modern, open view on diversity and acceptance" is not positive by itself. Unless you're looking from the point of view of those entering the country, which are people that nationals don't have to care about.
    - Tor3 7y ago
      I'm actually taking the point of view from the nationals, as you call it. With people coming from other places on earth the area I'm currently living in became a good place to live. I got the nicest next-door neighbours it's possible to imagine, for example. My wife cried when they moved to another place (to get more space). The city center is also a vastly more dynamic and interesting place to be than it used to be back when everything was monotone. Back when the only non-native language you could hear was a little bit of English, and the occasional tourists from nearby countries. Now there are more than a hundred languages spoken here. It works fantastically well, but it demands that you avoid creating ghettos for immigrants, as has been the unfortunate expericence of some cities elsewhere in Europe.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

zlakb 7y ago

If you said the same thing of a European country your comment would be flagged already.

blub 7y ago
I don't know how you meant that, but this is absolutely the case in every European country that I know of. You are considered one of them if you have the appropriate skin color, name, accent, etc. This is so deeply ingrained in the human psyche that it's nuts to even fight it. It will only change when a large enough part of the population will have the "wrong" skin color, name or accent. Or you get large scale open conflicts, I guess, there's no guarantees of a happy end, on the contrary.

distantaidenn 7y ago

That's exactly the problem though. She is being veiwed as less Japanese and subsequently discriminated against.

village-idiot 7y ago

This is the conflict that arises when the name for the group applies to a nationality and a distinctly identifiable racial group as well. Some will use “Japanese” to talk about those that are legally and culturally from Japan, and others will use the word to reference those that are genetically from Japan.

slothtrop 7y ago

Congrats, you just described racism. "All Japanese" in this instance refers to the nation and by extension parent culture, not ethnicity.

magpi3 7y ago

If mixed ethnicity makes you less Japanese than of course you will be discriminated against. At the very least families who want their descendants to be "more" Japanese will resist allowing their children to marry those who are "less" Japanese. That is discrimination. Even the term "less Japanese" sounds like a perjorative in a country so deeply founded on a specific cultural identity. We live in a global world now. Countries that fundamentally tie their culture to ethnicities will someday be a thing of the past. It is just question of how long it will take some countries to accept it. And for the mistakes that the U.S. has made, one thing it has gotten right (for the most part) is its acknowledgement that diversity is a strength and being American has nothing to do with your bloodline. Of course there are racists in the U.S. who would say otherwise, but I think they are short-sighted fools. One of the U.S.'s biggest competitive advantages in a global economy is its (relative) freedom from the historical baggage that weighs down other countries whose national identity is tied to a specific ethnicity or rigid cultural identity.

blub 7y ago
"We live in a global world now. Countries that fundamentally tie their culture to ethnicities will someday be a thing of the past. " No we don't and no they won't be. The only countries that are making this mistake are those from Western Europe and the US & co. Others are proud of their heritage, cherish it and fight for their culture. Your utopia may only be true once we become space-faring and encounter other species. Only then our humanity will unite us in spite of our differences. The US... is a darn poor choice of example. Half the population voted for a president that wants to build a wall around Mexico. Half the population are short-sighted fools, are they? The US is rife with ethnic conflict, I used to think it's a success story, but now I think that it's a ticking time bomb.
- magpi3 7y ago
  I am not describing a utopia. I just do not think, barring some world-wide catastrophe, there is any way you can turn the clock back on globalism at this point. I know people want to go back. People always want to live in the past. Many Trump voters were voting for someone to take them back to the past. Same with Brexit. But go far back enough in the past and you will see everything was once different. The world is changing and that change is pointing in one direction however much people want to fight it.

world32 7y ago

So do you think it's OK for me as a white Englishman to consider a black person born in England to not truly be English? What about for a German to consider Jews to be less German? Is that ok too? Its just their "culture" right? Edit: I suggest you watch this exchange between a black Englishman Gary Young and the white supremacist Richard Spencer. It's nasty stuff right? Him telling the guy "you're not a real Englishman". Yet you have japanese friends who say exactly the same thing about non ethnically Japanese people and you think that's fine? How do you square that circle? https://youtu.be/puJ-arJgkZU https://youtu.be/puJ-arJgkZU