5 ms·

As for pulling the emergency brake for someone who is unwell, there are frequent announcements on the tube telling you not to do that. The advice from TfL is to

by mprev 7y ago

As for pulling the emergency brake for someone who is unwell, there are frequent announcements on the tube telling you not to do that. The advice from TfL is to wait until the next station and help the person get off.

dx034 7y ago
That's true if someone is still able to walk. For people who need medical assistance you need to alert the driver to ensure the train won't continue. I think they started these announcements because people considered someone feeling dizzy a medical emergency.
- mprev 7y ago
  I can see that it could be wise to pull the emergency handle at the station to prevent the train moving if, say, someone were having a heart attack and couldn't easily be moved to the platform. But pulling it between stations would only prolong the time it took for the person to get help.
  - dx034 7y ago
    It won't as there are no emergency brakes on Tubes, they're just called emergency brake. The train continues to the station and will then remain there.
    - mprev 7y ago
      Regardless of whether the emergency handle is connected to a physical brake or if it sounds a alarm, there is an emergency brake. If the driver removes their hand from the dead man's switch, the emergency brake engages. But that's a side-road to this discussion. Unless you can point to official advice from TfL that states otherwise, I'm just gonna come out and say that I think it's best to stick to the advice TfL give at stations which is not to pull the emergency handle if someone is unwell. Whatever the precise action that results from pulling the handle (whether that's sounding an alarm, engaging a brake, or whatever), I don't see what it would achieve between stations and especially when TfL say not to do it.
  - bobthepanda 7y ago
    There are very limited scenarios where you want to pull the brake; e.g. the door has closes on a passenger and is dragging them along. But of course these are very limited and you almost never actually want to do that.
- rightbyte 7y ago
  In the Stockholm metro there is a intercom to the driver for talking from the wagons. Is there one in London?
  - lmm 7y ago
    Yes, but the audio quality is not very good. There was a recent incident that was exacerbated by a driver mishearing "there's a fire" as "there's a fight".
mcv 7y ago
I find it weird that there's so much confusion about the way emergency brakes work and when to use them on the London Underground. If people on HN can't agree on it, how can the general public? Confusion about this sort of thing can be dangerous.
- Angostura 7y ago
  Part part of the issue is that it changed about 20 years ago. The emergency brakes used to actually apply the brake, rather than signal the driver. But even when I was a lad, there were signs on the trains saying 'if someone is unwell, don't apply the brake until the station - help will get to them faster'.
  - userbinator 7y ago
    Makes a lot of sense and is very logical --- that person still has to get off the train somehow, and better at a station which the train is already going to, than to stop and wait somewhere between stations for help to arrive. Perhaps the reason people pull the brake is more of a panic reaction.
- JaimeThompson 7y ago
  That is because people on HN are the general public in a lot of ways. Just because most are specialized knowledge workers doesn't mean they are inherently more intelligent in other areas of life.
  - darkpuma 7y ago
    Intelligence isn't the right word. There are some sort of jobs that do select for high intelligence. Any sort of work that requires abstract reasoning and novel problem solving is going to be inaccessible to people with lower intelligence. Rather, it should be said that tech workers are not inherently more knowledgeable in matters unrelating to tech than the general public. In this case, knowledge of train function and etiquette is in question, not intelligence. (Note also that intelligence does not confer knowledge (although it makes knowledge easier to acquire) and that it's quite easy to find examples of people with modest intelligence but exceptional knowledge. Furthermore the work/intelligence selection process only really applies in one direction; there are a lot of high intelligence people who choose jobs they find undemanding because they have different priorities or have had different opportunities in life.)
baud147258 7y ago
Last time I was in a tube when the emergency brake was pulled (not in NY or London), it was by a mom who had left her kid behind at the last station. All it did was stop the tube between two station, the driver had to go check what happened then go back and restart the tube.
londons_explore 7y ago
The process to reset the brake can easily take 30 minutes or more, delaying 20,000 people or more (all people on the train, plus the trains behind, and the trains which can't start their journey because they're stuck in the wrong place, and the trains which have to be cancelled because it's now the end of the drivers shift). The real solution is to practice till the time to reset an emergency brake is 1 minute or less. It should be simple - someone in a control room checks all CCTV cameras to see the situation, and presses a button to restart the train. TFL's cameras mostly aren't digital and can't be watched remotely, so they're miles off ever being able to do this.

by mprev 7y ago

dx034 7y ago

That's true if someone is still able to walk. For people who need medical assistance you need to alert the driver to ensure the train won't continue. I think they started these announcements because people considered someone feeling dizzy a medical emergency.

mprev 7y ago
I can see that it could be wise to pull the emergency handle at the station to prevent the train moving if, say, someone were having a heart attack and couldn't easily be moved to the platform. But pulling it between stations would only prolong the time it took for the person to get help.
- dx034 7y ago
  It won't as there are no emergency brakes on Tubes, they're just called emergency brake. The train continues to the station and will then remain there.
  - mprev 7y ago
    Regardless of whether the emergency handle is connected to a physical brake or if it sounds a alarm, there is an emergency brake. If the driver removes their hand from the dead man's switch, the emergency brake engages. But that's a side-road to this discussion. Unless you can point to official advice from TfL that states otherwise, I'm just gonna come out and say that I think it's best to stick to the advice TfL give at stations which is not to pull the emergency handle if someone is unwell. Whatever the precise action that results from pulling the handle (whether that's sounding an alarm, engaging a brake, or whatever), I don't see what it would achieve between stations and especially when TfL say not to do it.
- bobthepanda 7y ago
  There are very limited scenarios where you want to pull the brake; e.g. the door has closes on a passenger and is dragging them along. But of course these are very limited and you almost never actually want to do that.
rightbyte 7y ago
In the Stockholm metro there is a intercom to the driver for talking from the wagons. Is there one in London?
- lmm 7y ago
  Yes, but the audio quality is not very good. There was a recent incident that was exacerbated by a driver mishearing "there's a fire" as "there's a fight".

mcv 7y ago

I find it weird that there's so much confusion about the way emergency brakes work and when to use them on the London Underground. If people on HN can't agree on it, how can the general public? Confusion about this sort of thing can be dangerous.

Angostura 7y ago
Part part of the issue is that it changed about 20 years ago. The emergency brakes used to actually apply the brake, rather than signal the driver. But even when I was a lad, there were signs on the trains saying 'if someone is unwell, don't apply the brake until the station - help will get to them faster'.
- userbinator 7y ago
  Makes a lot of sense and is very logical --- that person still has to get off the train somehow, and better at a station which the train is already going to, than to stop and wait somewhere between stations for help to arrive. Perhaps the reason people pull the brake is more of a panic reaction.
JaimeThompson 7y ago
That is because people on HN are the general public in a lot of ways. Just because most are specialized knowledge workers doesn't mean they are inherently more intelligent in other areas of life.
- darkpuma 7y ago
  Intelligence isn't the right word. There are some sort of jobs that do select for high intelligence. Any sort of work that requires abstract reasoning and novel problem solving is going to be inaccessible to people with lower intelligence. Rather, it should be said that tech workers are not inherently more knowledgeable in matters unrelating to tech than the general public. In this case, knowledge of train function and etiquette is in question, not intelligence. (Note also that intelligence does not confer knowledge (although it makes knowledge easier to acquire) and that it's quite easy to find examples of people with modest intelligence but exceptional knowledge. Furthermore the work/intelligence selection process only really applies in one direction; there are a lot of high intelligence people who choose jobs they find undemanding because they have different priorities or have had different opportunities in life.)

baud147258 7y ago

Last time I was in a tube when the emergency brake was pulled (not in NY or London), it was by a mom who had left her kid behind at the last station. All it did was stop the tube between two station, the driver had to go check what happened then go back and restart the tube.

londons_explore 7y ago

The process to reset the brake can easily take 30 minutes or more, delaying 20,000 people or more (all people on the train, plus the trains behind, and the trains which can't start their journey because they're stuck in the wrong place, and the trains which have to be cancelled because it's now the end of the drivers shift). The real solution is to practice till the time to reset an emergency brake is 1 minute or less. It should be simple - someone in a control room checks all CCTV cameras to see the situation, and presses a button to restart the train. TFL's cameras mostly aren't digital and can't be watched remotely, so they're miles off ever being able to do this.