4 ms·

He's wearing a hoodie, shady people wear hoodies! Sad times.

by keyle 7y ago

wahern 7y ago
Shady people do wear hoodies. Sometimes non-shady people do, too. But imagine you're a convenience store clerk, are you going to be more suspicious of the person with a hoodie or a person without, all else being equal? Sometimes people wear hoodies just because they feel self-conscious or don't want to feel exposed or vulnerable. No coincidence that it's mostly teenagers and young people who wear hoodies. That's understandable. But it's also fair for people to be suspicious of people not willing to expose themselves to public scrutiny. There's a correlation between diverse societies and smiling. Why? Because smiling is a compensatory signal in environments prone to heightened suspicion or stress. Hoodies disrupt this and other social signaling mechanisms. Humans evolved extremely expressive facial signaling mechanisms, afterall, many of which are subconscious.
- grenoire 7y ago
  > There's a correlation between diverse societies and smiling. I would like to request source.
  - wahern 7y ago
    There's been several recent research papers on it. Here's an Atlantic article discussing some of them: https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2017/05/why-americans-smile-so-much/524967/ https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2017/05/why-amer... See also https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4840223/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4840223/ and https://wp.comminfo.rutgers.edu/vsingh/wp-content/uploads/sites/110/2017/10/ACMMM_Singh_Diversity_Smile.pdf https://wp.comminfo.rutgers.edu/vsingh/wp-content/uploads/si... Hardly conclusive, but I think the general principle that hoodies disrupt facial signaling and identification is hard to dispute. Also I think it's self-evident that disruption and anonymity is a primary reason (absent weather) they're worn in the first place. That doesn't imply nefarious motivations, but it does correlate with some kinds of nefarious behavior. Walking into a bank with a ski mask/balaclava isn't a great idea, even if you just came off the slopes. Why deny that? Same basic logic applies to hoodies, notwithstanding that they're much more common and give less reason to be suspicious in most circumstances. That doesn't mean they don't warrant any heightened suspicion whatsoever. None of this justifies accosting and shooting unarmed people, especially unarmed children, any place. OTOH, telling people, especially kids, that there's nothing wrong with hoodies whatsoever sends the wrong signals about how people should socially engage in their communities and in public; it excuses withdrawal. Even though I live in California where almost nobody takes off their hat when walking indoors, I've taught my 4-year-old kid to do so and he does so instinctively. (I grew up in the Deep South where it was expected, though I never actually wore hats as a kid.) I did this not because I think anybody else cares or because it intrinsically matters, but because it helps teach him to be comfortably conscientious about how he presents himself in different contexts. I also discourage him from using the hood of a hoodie unless he has good reason to; especially for kids the act of wearing the hood is an act of withdrawal, which is not a good habit to get into, especially in American culture. He won't grow up poor like I did so none of this may ever matter for him--he'll likely always travel in privileged circles. But that's not guaranteed. These life skills might prove to be useful some day.
- lysp 7y ago
  Reminds of of a comedy skit that was filmed in Australia a decade ago. Someone dressed as a stereotypical "American tourist" and started filming places (Sydney Harbour Bridge and a Nuclear research facility). Then they had someone dress up as a stereotypical "Arab/Mulslim terrorist" and did the same thing to see what happened when he started filming. Only footage of it I could find was this which is 240p - but is enough to get the idea of what it was about: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0n4Oehj6y8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0n4Oehj6y8
  - baq 7y ago
    adversarial examples for bioDNN.
  - netsharc 7y ago
    The guy wasn't even dressed as a "terrorist", unless your view of "terrorist" is anyone dressed in Arabic clothing... If you go to Arabic countries many people wear gear like the one in the video.
    - PhasmaFelis 7y ago
      Thus the word "stereotypical" and the sarcasm quotes around "Arab/Muslim terrorist." That's what people think a terrorist looks like. Of course an actual terrorist would try to blend in as much as possible.
  - morpheuskafka 7y ago
    This really goes to show that 90% of the state security operation is about expanding state power, harassing minorities and setting up a social construction of "good" behavior, and not actually improving public safety.
- chx 7y ago
  I wish hoodies were more accepted for not so young people because they warm my sensitive ears and you can't lose 'em. The latter is very hard on a long enough travel :/
  - dsfyu404ed 7y ago
    Plenty of people 30, 40+ wear hoodies. Those people just don't (usually) work in offices and post on HN.
    - stronglikedan 7y ago
      I'm 40+ and I wear hoodies for the same reason as OP - my ears are sensitive to cold, as is the rest of my neck and head. If the temperature starts with a 6 or less, I look like Kenny from South Park while walking down the street. I also work in an office, but I never post on HN, especially while at work. ;-)
- dontbenebby 7y ago
  >Shady people do wear hoodies. Sometimes non-shady people do, too. Hoodies in the UK are more of a class signifier than the US. Some people use them to hide from CCTV (usually young, poor people). Interestingly I learned this stereotype when I went to go into pub, got told no hoodies, asked why, and then was told oh never mind when they heard my American accent.
- craftyguy 7y ago
  Or, you know, it's cold out and the hood keeps their head warm. The fact that there's a great debate over wearing hoodies in a comment section on 'hacker' 'news' for an article about Canadian airports accomidating people taking photos of planes is mildly entertaining though.

He's wearing a hoodie, shady people wear hoodies! Sad times.

by keyle 7y ago

He's wearing a hoodie, shady people wear hoodies! Sad times.

Shady people do wear hoodies. Sometimes non-shady people do, too. But imagine you're a convenience store clerk, are you going to be more suspicious of the person with a hoodie or a person without, all else being equal? Sometimes people wear hoodies just because they feel self-conscious or don't want to feel exposed or vulnerable. No coincidence that it's mostly teenagers and young people who wear hoodies. That's understandable. But it's also fair for people to be suspicious of people not willing to expose themselves to public scrutiny. There's a correlation between diverse societies and smiling. Why? Because smiling is a compensatory signal in environments prone to heightened suspicion or stress. Hoodies disrupt this and other social signaling mechanisms. Humans evolved extremely expressive facial signaling mechanisms, afterall, many of which are subconscious.

grenoire 7y ago
> There's a correlation between diverse societies and smiling. I would like to request source.
- wahern 7y ago
  There's been several recent research papers on it. Here's an Atlantic article discussing some of them: https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2017/05/why-americans-smile-so-much/524967/ https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2017/05/why-amer... See also https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4840223/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4840223/ and https://wp.comminfo.rutgers.edu/vsingh/wp-content/uploads/sites/110/2017/10/ACMMM_Singh_Diversity_Smile.pdf https://wp.comminfo.rutgers.edu/vsingh/wp-content/uploads/si... Hardly conclusive, but I think the general principle that hoodies disrupt facial signaling and identification is hard to dispute. Also I think it's self-evident that disruption and anonymity is a primary reason (absent weather) they're worn in the first place. That doesn't imply nefarious motivations, but it does correlate with some kinds of nefarious behavior. Walking into a bank with a ski mask/balaclava isn't a great idea, even if you just came off the slopes. Why deny that? Same basic logic applies to hoodies, notwithstanding that they're much more common and give less reason to be suspicious in most circumstances. That doesn't mean they don't warrant any heightened suspicion whatsoever. None of this justifies accosting and shooting unarmed people, especially unarmed children, any place. OTOH, telling people, especially kids, that there's nothing wrong with hoodies whatsoever sends the wrong signals about how people should socially engage in their communities and in public; it excuses withdrawal. Even though I live in California where almost nobody takes off their hat when walking indoors, I've taught my 4-year-old kid to do so and he does so instinctively. (I grew up in the Deep South where it was expected, though I never actually wore hats as a kid.) I did this not because I think anybody else cares or because it intrinsically matters, but because it helps teach him to be comfortably conscientious about how he presents himself in different contexts. I also discourage him from using the hood of a hoodie unless he has good reason to; especially for kids the act of wearing the hood is an act of withdrawal, which is not a good habit to get into, especially in American culture. He won't grow up poor like I did so none of this may ever matter for him--he'll likely always travel in privileged circles. But that's not guaranteed. These life skills might prove to be useful some day.
lysp 7y ago
Reminds of of a comedy skit that was filmed in Australia a decade ago. Someone dressed as a stereotypical "American tourist" and started filming places (Sydney Harbour Bridge and a Nuclear research facility). Then they had someone dress up as a stereotypical "Arab/Mulslim terrorist" and did the same thing to see what happened when he started filming. Only footage of it I could find was this which is 240p - but is enough to get the idea of what it was about: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0n4Oehj6y8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0n4Oehj6y8
- baq 7y ago
  adversarial examples for bioDNN.
- netsharc 7y ago
  The guy wasn't even dressed as a "terrorist", unless your view of "terrorist" is anyone dressed in Arabic clothing... If you go to Arabic countries many people wear gear like the one in the video.
  - PhasmaFelis 7y ago
    Thus the word "stereotypical" and the sarcasm quotes around "Arab/Muslim terrorist." That's what people think a terrorist looks like. Of course an actual terrorist would try to blend in as much as possible.
- morpheuskafka 7y ago
  This really goes to show that 90% of the state security operation is about expanding state power, harassing minorities and setting up a social construction of "good" behavior, and not actually improving public safety.
chx 7y ago
I wish hoodies were more accepted for not so young people because they warm my sensitive ears and you can't lose 'em. The latter is very hard on a long enough travel :/
- dsfyu404ed 7y ago
  Plenty of people 30, 40+ wear hoodies. Those people just don't (usually) work in offices and post on HN.
  - stronglikedan 7y ago
    I'm 40+ and I wear hoodies for the same reason as OP - my ears are sensitive to cold, as is the rest of my neck and head. If the temperature starts with a 6 or less, I look like Kenny from South Park while walking down the street. I also work in an office, but I never post on HN, especially while at work. ;-)
dontbenebby 7y ago
>Shady people do wear hoodies. Sometimes non-shady people do, too. Hoodies in the UK are more of a class signifier than the US. Some people use them to hide from CCTV (usually young, poor people). Interestingly I learned this stereotype when I went to go into pub, got told no hoodies, asked why, and then was told oh never mind when they heard my American accent.
craftyguy 7y ago
Or, you know, it's cold out and the hood keeps their head warm. The fact that there's a great debate over wearing hoodies in a comment section on 'hacker' 'news' for an article about Canadian airports accomidating people taking photos of planes is mildly entertaining though.