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OP-Z Synthesizer
- th0ma5 7y agoThat's a good price.
- nkozyra 7y agoI'm not convinced, particularly given Teenage Engineering's pricing history. I root for them, absolutely. But their stuff carries a premium and is technically limited, generally fulfilling a novelty space. The big win here is the visual stuff, but again I'm not sure that justifies the price.
- lbotos 7y agoI might change the word novelty with "boutique". They are building "fun" interfaces but the korg montron's are more a "novelty".
- tedkalaw 7y agoI was thinking of getting one but considering the price point, there are far too many stories of broken devices and slow/non-existent support: https://www.reddit.com/r/OP1users/comments/bpxuyl/second_op_1_in_a_week_broken_on_arrival/ https://www.reddit.com/r/OP1users/comments/bpxuyl/second_op_... https://www.reddit.com/r/OP1users/comments/bokuo5/te/ https://www.reddit.com/r/OP1users/comments/bokuo5/te/ https://www.reddit.com/r/OP1users/comments/bnkcro/keybed_replacement_from_te/ https://www.reddit.com/r/OP1users/comments/bnkcro/keybed_rep... If they treat people paying 1300 USD for a device like that, can’t imagine how they’ll handle OP-Z owners. I love the all-in-one idea and getting away from the DAW but it feels too risky to me.
- siralonso 7y agoOne datapoint to the contrary - I had an excellent experience with their support. Shortly after I bought my original OP-1 (the $800 version), I managed to brick it during a firmware update (my computer died while loading the new FW IIRC). They're a Swedish company but had an "authorized repair" guy based in the states, so I just dropped it in the mail and had it back in about a week. Can't remember if they covered shipping, but they were super communicative through the whole process. This was a few years ago, so maybe that's changed!
- shams93 7y agoYeah that's why I would just build my own video synth its not that difficult to do and stick with pocket operators which are under $100. Especially since op-z can't record digital tracks or sample like the op-1.
- d12345m 7y agoSampling is on the way! TE demoed it at Superbooth. https://www.opzed.com/news/sampling-coming-soon.html https://www.opzed.com/news/sampling-coming-soon.html
- nikofeyn 7y agowhat is a competing device that says this price isn’t justified?
- flavor8 7y agoThere's lots of good sequencers at that price point, or cheaper. E.g. check out NI's Maschine range.
- fredoliveira 7y agoThe OP-1 isn't just a sequencer. It is a synth, a sequencer, a sampler (which even includes an internal FM radio if you need a creative source), etc. You should explore the machine if you get the chance or watch some of the stuff people do with it. It is a great creative instrument.
- nikofeyn 7y agojust as a note, the original post is discussing the op-z and not the op-1, although responses to criticism of both instruments is usually the same in that they do way more than people think. :)
- nikofeyn 7y ago? that's not even in the same product category. the maschine requires constant connection to a computer. and none of the maschine line is the size of a tv remote with a long-lasting battery. in addition, the op-z is not just a sequencer. even if you considered it just a sequencer, it can sequence multiple audio tracks, cv tracks, and a video track.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- miloshadzic 7y agoI would never call OP-1 limited. I haven't touched the OP-Z but I doubt I'd think it's "technically limited" as well. I'd say that the OP-1 is probably one of the better designed musical instruments in the recent past.
- TheOtherHobbes 7y agoTE make toys - finely designed and polished toys supported by a finely designed and polished web site. But still toys. OP-1 has a lot of options that make you feel like you're making music, when in fact you're trapped in an endless round of "What happens if I...?" inside the feature space. Hence the novelty tag. They're not particularly productive instruments, but they can be a fun way to pass an hour or two. A software environment like Max, PD, or Reaktor is much less limited. But the learning curve is much steeper, and the instant gratification factor much lower. And then there are the code-based environments like Supercollider, in which you can implement the OP-1 sequencers and synths with a few lines of code, and easily create your own variations - but the learning curve for non-coders might as well be vertical, and it's not shallow even for experienced coders.
- ingenieros 7y agoJean-Michel Jarre doesn't seem to think it's just a toy, but I guess you are a bigger authority on the subject. https://daily.redbullmusicacademy.com/2012/05/jarre-synth https://daily.redbullmusicacademy.com/2012/05/jarre-synth
- shearskill 7y agoYour disdain for the device out of the box may be warranted but that could be said for any pre-programmed music device ever released including the Casio keyboard that still takes C batteries but has an adjustable bpm.
- rtkwe 7y ago> A software environment like Max, PD, or Reaktor is much less limited. But the learning curve is much steeper, and the instant gratification factor much lower. I think comparing any physical keyboard synth/sequencer to the full desktop software is going to make the device look like a toy in comparison. It's apples and oranges in terms of available power and interface and really purpose.
- unsatchmo 7y agoThe decision to depend on an external device is going to suck in 30 years. This is where the OP1 shines. Meanwhile I have synthesizers from the 70's and 80's that still work well and sound amazing.
- sdenton4 7y agoMy sense is that it doesn't strictly rely on an external device - you can find your way to where you like without a screen... My long-term fear is what happens when the internal batteries get old. (I love my OP-1 and pile of pocket operators; Teenage Engineering is doing amazing work.)
- djs070 7y agoThe battery is replaceable, not sure that it's a big concern. I'd kill to see open documented bindings for wireless interaction, as well as the ability to write custom synth engines, but really doesn't appear to be the direction for them.
- the-rc 7y agoThis could be reverse engineered. If the Bluetooth connection is encrypted, there might be an additional step involving jailbreaking the iOS device (hard) or setting up some kind of MITM proxy. The rest shouldn't be too complicated. It sounds like TE might be working on an Android port; they just don't want to commit to it.
- emzperx 7y agohttps://github.com/hyphz/opzdoc/wiki/MIDI-Protocol https://github.com/hyphz/opzdoc/wiki/MIDI-Protocol
- mastazi 7y agoMaybe I misunderstood the OP-Z manual but I think that some of the functionality of the OP-Z is only accessible if you connect it to an iOS device, e.g. the two features called Photomatic and Videolab. PS some recent promotional material by TE said that the OP-Z app is iOS only "for now", so at least there is hope that it will become available on more platform.
- jacquesm 7y agoI played with one of these a month or so ago and will definitely get one for my more musically oriented child to play around with. They're fun and a different way at making synthesized sounds, the UI is reminiscent of handheld game consoles. Beware though, these could very well be a gateway drug to a house full of gear ;)
- bitL 7y agoYou can't ever overcome synth GAS... I have a music studio full of latest greatest toys and it's never enough... Better excise it right in the beginning or you are lost forever ;-)
- grenoire 7y agoProprietary device with proprietary bindings. I like pocket operators a lot, but this seems like TE is going the opposite of where I wished they would...
- nikofeyn 7y agowhat a strange stance. what would you have them do? and if you want an open source “portable keyboard thing”, then there’s already the organelle. it is no surprise it isn’t much cheaper and isn’t as well designed, for both hardware and software. https://www.critterandguitari.com/organelle https://www.critterandguitari.com/organelle
- grenoire 7y agoAn HDMI/USB port, alongside access not simply for Unity but also for raw data for use with OpenGL and whatnot. It's not an unreasonable request.
- justasitsounds 7y agoIt has a usb-c port for MIDI-out
- floatingatoll 7y agoThat is an unreasonable request. It contradicts their modus operandi and demands the earth, moon, and stars of an off-the-shelf product so that a niche - game developers - can build profitable tools on top of it while paying them nothing for the privilege.
- grenoire 7y agoDang, times sure have changed. Back in my good ol' days...
- wifijacob 7y agoit does not have the processing power to render the graphics itself - so an hdmi port wouldn't be possible.
- _eLRIC 7y agoPromising similar open source project : https://github.com/topisani/OTTO https://github.com/topisani/OTTO The progress made by the guys these last months is impressive, and both the UI and hardware aestetics really shines (while they are inspired by the OP1, they now have their own personality)
- tinco 7y agoAwesome! How did you find out about this project? I've been looking to work on a project like this and didn't find them.
- pcerdam 7y agoAt least in my case, I remember seeing them somewhere here on HN before. It's amazing project, for sure!
- monkeynotes 7y agoI have also seen this project while looking for an open source VST in a pi-box thing. Looks really neat.
- fit2rule 7y agoThere are a couple of these kinds of devices you might not have tuned into yet, namely: Axoloti: http://www.axoloti.com/ http://www.axoloti.com/ (There are great cases/knobs/button boxes for this, for example check this thread out for the mad directions things can take: https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=158092 https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=158092) Organelle: https://www.critterandguitari.com/organelle https://www.critterandguitari.com/organelle Another very cute, very programmable portable digital synth .. And then there are things like this, which I had the pleasure of playing recently at superbooth: Sonicware ELZ1: https://www.sonicware.jp/elz-1-1 https://www.sonicware.jp/elz-1-1 So, yeah .. lots of little portable, digital and analog synths in the OP-1/-Z style format.
- jypepin 7y agoWhatever Teenage Engineering makes, it looks awesome and seems to be of great quality. I randomly found out about them and started looking at a bunch of youtube videos, it made me really want to check those things out. I ended up buying a PO-33 KO, it's super fun. Turns out I can't make music (and don't really care for it) but the quality of the product is awesome and I'd recommend to anyone interested in music.
- jnskw 7y agoI'm in the same boat. I really like the product but have a really hard time creating anything enjoyable.
- Cthulhu_ 7y agoSame, I'm drawn to the buttons and knobs and flashing lights and cables though. Is there any good tutorial or course out there on how to evolve from making a thing create random noises to actual music? I mean this device is a big initial investment. The Pocket Operators less so though. A colleague also showed me the Korg Monologue, which has a lot of things going for it (synthesizer + sampler built in one, only thing lacking maybe is drums / beats but you could hook it up to idk, GarageBand maybe and stream it through or add it later?)
- awild 7y agoI started from scratch with ableton and have worked my way up to make decent techno music. [0] I've watched a ton of YouTube channels on production and just fiddled around with every effect. It's best to start out with a basic loop you enjoy and then iterate on it [1], if you're not feeling it, put it aside and work on another loop and come back later. In my opinion the most important thing is to try and imitate the things you like because it reveals a lot about the music, which is a good learning experience, and additionally about your own way of hearing etc. It's also important to see theory as a sort of praxis, most of the stuff is empiric and after the fact, nothing really matters, but it's useful to know for when you're stuck. [0]: https://m.soundcloud.com/someotherorder/of-necessity-absolute-nonsense https://m.soundcloud.com/someotherorder/of-necessity-absolut... [1]: https://m.soundcloud.com/someotherorder/vile-break/s-e7EV6 https://m.soundcloud.com/someotherorder/vile-break/s-e7EV6
- rcarmo 7y agoThe OP-Z is cute, but I’ve been looking for an iOS synth app that comes close to the OP-1 experience for a long while - in my view, it is a much nicer synth.
- kennywinker 7y agoIf you find it, let me know! I have tried: GarageBand - powerful, but hard to get into full flow. Frustrating lack of deep dive - you can tweak presets but not build patches from scratch. Korg Gadget - full control over the synths. Pretty good piano-roll style editing, but hard to record live. Also, I think it’s something in the default reverb that gives everything a very contemporary sound... not great if you’re not a fan of that sound.
- julian55 7y agoI have Korg Gadget and I also like Groovebox. It's more limited than Gadget but I think that makes it easier to get started.
- fab1an 7y agoDo take a look at Korg Gadget - it is a tremendous piece of software. VERY easy to pick up and just jam even with the vanilla synths (Chiang Mai is one big sweet spot), but really also deep enough to produce pro level tracks. The additional KORG synths (especially the wave station and ODYSSEi) are high end emulations and basically indistinguishable from the original hardware.
- hellofunk 7y agoI would say indistinguishable is an overstatement.
- jweather 7y agoOne of my favorite OP-1/OP-Z artists just did a video with a whole bunch of iOS apps -- doesn't make it any more affordable when you price them all, but at least you can mix and match the parts you want: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d12SNIcO32Q https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d12SNIcO32Q
- bicepjai 7y agoOn similar note: I am so addicted to the programmable synthesizer http://foxdot.org/ http://foxdot.org/
- bambax 7y agoThis looks amazing! How steep would you say is the learning curve? Is it worth it?
- julian55 7y agoFoxdot is based on Python so if you know Python you can get going making beats pretty quickly. It's great fun to play with but I think it takes time to get used to thinking of melodies in terms of numbers rather than frets or keys. I'm now spending some time learning Supercollider which Foxdot uses to make sounds.
- jweather 7y agoOr if Ruby is your jam, here's a Ruby+Supercollider mashup: https://sonic-pi.net/ https://sonic-pi.net/
- RickS 7y agoSee also: ORCA https://github.com/Hundredrabbits/Orca https://github.com/Hundredrabbits/Orca https://twitter.com/nobodycarestrue/status/1130764049786871809 https://twitter.com/nobodycarestrue/status/11307640497868718...
- spopejoy 7y agoEvery programmer/musician (or music-curious) owes themselves a look at Supercollider https://supercollider.github.io/ https://supercollider.github.io/. // two band limited square waves thru a resonant low pass filter { RLPF.ar(Pulse.ar([100,250],0.5,0.1), XLine.kr(8000,400,5), 0.05) }.play; It's really an incredibly interesting multi-paradigm language with elements of Smalltalk and J. The above code sounds great btw and is right out of the docs for `Pulse`.
- kennywinker 7y agoSome alternatives if the op-z isn’t quite hitting the spot for you: Elektron Digitakt - powerful sampler / sequencer. No synth engine but you can make many synth sounds using single-cycle samples. Elektron Digitone - same form-factor as above but with an fm synthesis engine (think yamaha dx7) instead of a sampler. Novation Circuit - wayyy cheaper. Can play samples but not sample live. Powerful synth engine, not fully editable without a computer. Good for live improve with pre-composed patterns.
- emzperx 7y agoI know one better, Deluge Synthstrom. It's more expensive, but all of the above and ++
- SeanLuke 7y ago> (think yamaha dx7) More properly, think Yamaha TX81Z + filter.
- monkeynotes 7y agoSynthstrom Deluge (Synth, drums, amazing sequencer, sampler and soon to be live looper in v3) was the choice for me when considering TE products. I almost bought a bunch of Pocket Operators, then I looked at the cost and decided to just pull the trigger on what I really wanted and got a Deluge. I love it, so much.
- rwmj 7y agoThe USP of the Deluge seems to be the isomorphic(?) chord keyboard. How did you find that to be? Was it easy to learn? I admit I would love one but the price puts me off.
- monkeynotes 7y agoPersonally the major selling point of the Deluge, and the reason I love it so much, is the sequencer. It's the most intuitive sequencer I've used and allows you to flow and work quickly. The scale note keyboard is good, but not all that playable, a LaunchPad might be better for doing similar but with aftertouch and bigger pads. That said, it's a very welcome feature and easy to use for coming up with ideas and staying in key. I am not a musician though, at all. I am rubbish at music, but the Deluge has helped me make smiles and dive into hours of sounds and beats I thought I'd never be able to make. I've spent time in Ableton and never got anything much out of mouse clicking, mostly just frustration with all the options and tedious input methods. With the Deluge I can turn it on and quickly lay down a simple chord progression, a drum beat, and make a bass line that satisfies. Then I twist filter knobs and mute tracks, and just jam on it for hours. Oh, and its battery powered, so I take it everywhere. It's just such a wonderful piece of technology. Easily worth every penny I spent on it.
- woofwoofwoof 7y agoWow, it’s quite expensive, especially in comparison with recent gen of affordable synths.
- Tepix 7y agoCan you point to some affordable recommendable synths?
- Cthulhu_ 7y agoI've recently played with the Korg Monologue, it's a solid machine, analog synthesizer and step sequencer, enough standard ports to extend it eventually - a criticism to the device mentioned in the OP is that it's pretty nonstandard in a bigger workflow. It's < $300, still not cheap but a pretty good package overall. A lower price is the Korg Volca, at $100 - $150 per unit. They're less versatile though and you'll probably end up having to buy / link up multiple. Even lower and you're looking at stuff like the Teenage Engineering Pocket Operator series, single card devices in the $70 range. There's a wide range of variations, each of which (correct me if I'm wrong) has 16 instruments and a programmable step sequencer, 16 patterns preloaded. The preloaded patterns have only 16 steps, but you can program it to have more than that and switch between patterns every 16 beats. You can link up multiple together as well, they can synchronize with one another (iirc you have to hook up your phone as the first step which generates a synchronization signal).
- rwmj 7y agoKorg KO2S. It's a synthesizer, but in a rather unusual package (so if you're looking for something with a piano keyboard, look elsewhere). It's a huge amount of fun and you can at least to some extent write proper music on it. It's also for what it is capable of very inexpensive.
- bborud 7y agoTeenage Engineering make astonishing products you just want to own even though you have no use for them. There is something deeply aesthetically pleasing about their devices. If the price hadn't been so steep for their OP-1 I would have bought one on impulse years ago.
- Cthulhu_ 7y agoOne of those moments where you wish you had fuck-you money. Of course when you dive into electronic music you suddenly find out there's a lot of really sweet stuff you can spend a huge amount of money on. I've been fortunate that I've been able to play around with some stuff from e.g. Moog; it's really gratifying to play around with the knobs and such. I mean it's expensive, but it's also really high quality, doesn't depreciate much (vintage stuff even appreciates, especially if it's failed products that have been rediscovered for other music styles than originally intended / existed), etc.
- wazoox 7y agoI did, and unfortunately I use very rarely, because I simply don't have enough time to learn how to work efficiently with it.
- siralonso 7y agoI've been traveling full-time for a year and living out of basically one big rolling-suitcase. Every time I'm back in the states, I convince myself to put the OP-1 in storage - it's just taking up weight, I could just as well use Ableton, etc... ...but I can never bring myself to leave it. I don't use it a ton, but when I do I get sucked into it for 4+ hours. I especially love to use it on long international flights (I read someplace this was one of the design goals), and my tape tracks are crammed with loops from the last 5 years - it's unexpectedly nostalgic to listen back. I originally bought it because of that strange impulse you mentioned, at a time when I really shouldn't have been buying expensive synth-toys - but I'm so, so glad that I did. Totally encourage you to pick one up if you ever get the opportunity!
- jskopek 7y agoI’m in a very similar situation with the OP-Z! No musical background, bought it because I was curious about the UI. I find myself getting sucked into it for hours at a time, even though I haven’t yet made a beat I’d be comfortable sharing. My original plan was to sell the OP-Z after a few months, but now I think I will hold onto this thing until it dies.
- elsherbini 7y agoI have an OP-1 and an OP-Z. More and more I use the OP-Z, the sequencing workflow is just incredible. I don't have an ios device and after climbing the learning curve it's totally functional without a screen. Also, the OP-Z can be used to sequence several pieces of external hardware at once [0]. Definitely not a toy. It has it's quirks (e.g. adding your own samples requires chopping them to exactly 6 seconds or all hell breaks loose, and no ability to "zoom in" on your sequence if you have multiple trigs per step) but it's a trade-off for all the power in the form factor. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHfCl6-xamM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHfCl6-xamM
- panpanna 7y agoIt is amazing what this tiny company has achieved with minimal resources. Sometimes I feel someone should buy these guys and put their designers in charge of much bigger things. (or maybe that's exactly how you kill talent)
- emzperx 7y agoZoomings been in beta for ages. In the latest fw samples on synth tracks can be <=6 seconds and wav also.
- elsherbini 7y agoOh great, I need to update then! Is the beta available to test somewhere?
- jordache 7y agoteenage engineering industrial design > Apple industrial design.
- bitL 7y agoHow does it compare to Novation Circuit (my favorite travel toy) or Deluge?
- skybrian 7y agoI guess I'm not in the target market, but how do you play this musical instrument? It looks like it doesn't have much in the way of a keyboard?
- brokenmachine 7y agoLooks like a cool product. Couldn't see how much it costs. Pity it only works with ios. I have one and like a lot of things about Android, but they really dropped the ball with no low-latency audio support.