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I'm continually impressed by the efforts of Parisian politicians to improve their cityscape. (Aside from this, see their removal of motor traffic along the Sein

I'm continually impressed by the efforts of Parisian politicians to improve their cityscape. (Aside from this, see their removal of motor traffic along the Seine [1] and tightening restrictions on polluting cars [2].) It speaks very well to their fiscal management too that they're able to fund the project through ticket sales, and don't need to levy any new taxes or bonds. Being a North American resident, it really makes me wonder what it would take to build political will for these types of projects on this side of the ocean. In San Francisco, closing even one part of one street to auto traffic is something that seems to be impossible — even for projects that _should_ be relatively uncontentious like closing some of the highways through Golden Gate Park, making the most pedestrian heavy parts of famous streets like Haight, Castro, or Lombard pedestrian-only, or taking private cars off Market Street. And quite sadly, SF is considered to be a walking-friendly city relative to others on the continent. It's nice that someone is acting as a guiding light for the rest of the world, especially when it's a city of Paris' fame/importance. --- [1] https://www.citylab.com/solutions/2016/09/paris-seine-car-pedestrians-quay-ban/501788/ https://www.citylab.com/solutions/2016/09/paris-seine-car-pe... [2] https://www.citylab.com/transportation/2016/05/paris-is-banning-cars-built-before-1997/484895/ https://www.citylab.com/transportation/2016/05/paris-is-bann...

CydeWeys 7y ago
Every time I go abroad, whether it's Europe, Japan, or most other places, I'm always struck by how international cities do such a better job of prioritizing people. Their public spaces are so enjoyable and safe to simply walk around in or bike through. American cities by contrast inevitably prioritize vehicles, even in Manhattan where fewer than 1 in 4 people even owns a car. We could be doing so much better, but simply aren't. No one seems to have the political will to make improvements.
- quotz 7y ago
  Its because US cities evolved during times of horse carriages and cars. European ones evolved when people were walking all the time
  - maxxxxx 7y ago
    They could start now. For example they could create pedestrian zones but for some reason the American psyche doesn't allow it.
    - quotz 7y ago
      I went to Vegas half a year ago and it was quite awkward walking around... I felt like I was on an airport runway all the time, quite uncomforting
      - CydeWeys 7y ago
        The Vegas Strip is the absolute poster child for the American mentality of prioritizing drivers even when pedestrians radically outnumber them and could make much better (and more profitable) use of the space. Fremont St (the Old Strip) is much more enjoyable than the new strip now, because they actually had the balls to pedestrianize the entire thing. It's a much more enjoyable experience; you can walk along at ground level, popping into whatever businesses you want while drinking your beer, and at no point do you have to take a bridge over a giant highway wasteland. Just compare these two photos and consider which you'd rather walk around in as a pedestrian: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Las_Vegas_Strip#/media/File:Las_Vegas_(22096744189).jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Las_Vegas_Strip#/media/File:La... https://www.playnevada.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/New-Derek-Stevens-casino.jpg https://www.playnevada.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/New-De...
    - hn_throwaway_99 7y ago
      I think it's baloney that "the American psyche doesn't allow it", it's just that disrupting automobile traffic is a huge burden on a ton of people, and given the history of American cities, most people rely on autos as their primary form of transportation.
      - maxxxxx 7y ago
        What ton of people would this be a huge burden for? In other areas in the world this works perfectly fine. You can also make zones where cars have to go very slow if they absolutely have to go to some building. It's a psychological thing.
- agumonkey 7y ago
  Europe was a bit like this too, but it seems the wave reversed earlier than in the US [0]. A lot of guys on reddit are very annoyed at parking lots etc etc. [0] not a US citizen but the legend says that cars are too deep into american culture
roywiggins 7y ago
De-automobiling Paris is a wonderful thing. It's evidently come a long way from the 1960's, but I don't know the history. https://www.unjourdeplusaparis.com/en/paris-insolite/photos-paris-parking-a-ciel-ouvert https://www.unjourdeplusaparis.com/en/paris-insolite/photos-...
- noobermin 7y ago
  This literally looks like any city in America.
- baud147258 7y ago
  Except for the drivers.
quotz 7y ago
London is so much more well kept than Paris for some reason. I went to Paris last year and the city was terrifyingly dirty, with layers of dirt struck on the walls of beautiful buildings, darkened by it. Stuff under construction was also mismanaged and often just poorly done. Scaffolding was very poorly done all around the city. After midnight I felt quite unsafe even in good neighbourhoods. I feel like London as a city is way better kept than Paris
- Jgrubb 7y ago
  "Terrifyingly dirty"? The simple way they clean the gutters with the fountains on the corners is amazing to me as an American. Layers of dirt on beautiful buildings? They're several hundred years old. Felt quite unsafe even in good neighborhoods? I spent all last week there, on foot, at all hours alone and never once felt unsafe. It occurs to me now that maybe that's my male privilege so apologies if that's not the case for you but Paris is the greatest city in the world as far as I'm concerned.
  - ThJ 7y ago
    My city (Oslo, Norway) also has buildings that are centuries old, but they are kept clean. When I went to Stockholm a couple of years back, their old buildings looked dirty because no one seemed to be cleaning them.
  - brmgb 7y ago
    > "Terrifyingly dirty"? The simple way they clean the gutters with the fountains on the corners is amazing to me as an American. As a Parisian, I can sadly attest that the city is currently disgustingly dirty, that it has been getting worse and worse in the five years since I moved there and that London is indeed a lot cleaner. Paris suffers from a lot of incivilities, very lax policing, the current mayor puting cleanliness as a non priority and extremely poor supervision of the existing cleaning crews. It has become such a pain point for Parisian that cleanliness is likely to be the main issue of next year electoral campaign.
    - noobermin 7y ago
bsaul 7y ago
As a parisian who stayed in SF for a month last year, i can tell you SF is way better for pedestrians than Paris, without any question (except for the hills of course). Streets are wide enough that you never feel stuck in a line, there are trees everywhere, and the wind from the ocean makes the air feel very clean. The reason Paris is spending so much energy thinking about its organization is because it is ( and has always been) completely overcrowded with one of the highest population density in the world. For a city that’s almost 2 thousand years old, that’s an extremely difficult problem to tackle.
- carlob 7y ago
  > For a city that’s almost 2 thousand years old There is really not much of the city that wasn't redone by Haussmann at the end of the 19th century. Even remnants of medieval Paris are few outside of the Marais.
  - baud147258 7y ago
    In addition to Haussmann's works, there's also all the reconstruction that had to took place after the Franco-Prussian war and its aftermath.
- rdl 7y ago
  I've spent months in both Paris and SF. I hate walking around SF, and enjoy walking around Paris, at least in the 1st-8th. Density is a feature for walking. Paris isn't perfect, but also has fewer piles of human excrement in the middle of the sidewalk, and in the cases you don't want to walk, the metro actually is usable. (Manhattan > Paris for walking and subway, but Paris is fine).
- coldtea 7y ago
  >As a parisian who stayed in SF for a month last year, i can tell you SF is way better for pedestrians than Paris, without any question (except for the hills of course). As a European that has visited both Paris and SF multiple times, Paris wins hands down... Modern Paris has its problems, but for a pedestrian there's no comparison with SF. (And let's not even get into the huge homeless/etc problem in SF)
baud147258 7y ago
The issue with such a project is that it's going to (again) increase the traffic jams in the Paris suburban area and push more traffic to the cities surrounding Paris; but since the mayor is only elected by the inhabitants of Paris, she doesn't have to take into account the impact of her decisions on the other cities around Paris.
- Majestic121 7y ago
  Most of the traffic in Paris actually comes from Paris : https://www.paris.fr/actualites/a-paris-seuls-22-des-conducteurs-ont-reellement-besoin-d-un-vehicule-3876 https://www.paris.fr/actualites/a-paris-seuls-22-des-conduct...
  - baud147258 7y ago
    That figure is 4 years old and was done only in a very small area right in the middle of Paris, so the figure of 50% of drivers coming from Paris is not very useful.
  - Twark 7y ago
    Please note that this study was ordered Paris city council, which tries to reduce actively the number of cars. The presentation is not totally neutral.
grumpydba 7y ago
> It speaks very well to their fiscal management too that they're able to fund the project through ticket sales, and don't need to levy any new taxes or bonds. Paris' current fiscal management is the worst the city has ever seen. The city's total debt grew from 1B euros in 2001 to 6B in 2018.
bbatha 7y ago
American cities across the country are tearing down beltways built in the 50s and 60s. San Francisco tearing down the Embarcadero Highway was the start of the movement.

CydeWeys 7y ago

Every time I go abroad, whether it's Europe, Japan, or most other places, I'm always struck by how international cities do such a better job of prioritizing people. Their public spaces are so enjoyable and safe to simply walk around in or bike through. American cities by contrast inevitably prioritize vehicles, even in Manhattan where fewer than 1 in 4 people even owns a car. We could be doing so much better, but simply aren't. No one seems to have the political will to make improvements.

quotz 7y ago
Its because US cities evolved during times of horse carriages and cars. European ones evolved when people were walking all the time
- maxxxxx 7y ago
  They could start now. For example they could create pedestrian zones but for some reason the American psyche doesn't allow it.
  - quotz 7y ago
    I went to Vegas half a year ago and it was quite awkward walking around... I felt like I was on an airport runway all the time, quite uncomforting
    - CydeWeys 7y ago
      The Vegas Strip is the absolute poster child for the American mentality of prioritizing drivers even when pedestrians radically outnumber them and could make much better (and more profitable) use of the space. Fremont St (the Old Strip) is much more enjoyable than the new strip now, because they actually had the balls to pedestrianize the entire thing. It's a much more enjoyable experience; you can walk along at ground level, popping into whatever businesses you want while drinking your beer, and at no point do you have to take a bridge over a giant highway wasteland. Just compare these two photos and consider which you'd rather walk around in as a pedestrian: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Las_Vegas_Strip#/media/File:Las_Vegas_(22096744189).jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Las_Vegas_Strip#/media/File:La... https://www.playnevada.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/New-Derek-Stevens-casino.jpg https://www.playnevada.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/New-De...
  - hn_throwaway_99 7y ago
    I think it's baloney that "the American psyche doesn't allow it", it's just that disrupting automobile traffic is a huge burden on a ton of people, and given the history of American cities, most people rely on autos as their primary form of transportation.
    - maxxxxx 7y ago
      What ton of people would this be a huge burden for? In other areas in the world this works perfectly fine. You can also make zones where cars have to go very slow if they absolutely have to go to some building. It's a psychological thing.
agumonkey 7y ago
Europe was a bit like this too, but it seems the wave reversed earlier than in the US [0]. A lot of guys on reddit are very annoyed at parking lots etc etc. [0] not a US citizen but the legend says that cars are too deep into american culture

roywiggins 7y ago

De-automobiling Paris is a wonderful thing. It's evidently come a long way from the 1960's, but I don't know the history. https://www.unjourdeplusaparis.com/en/paris-insolite/photos-paris-parking-a-ciel-ouvert https://www.unjourdeplusaparis.com/en/paris-insolite/photos-...

noobermin 7y ago
This literally looks like any city in America.
baud147258 7y ago
Except for the drivers.

quotz 7y ago

London is so much more well kept than Paris for some reason. I went to Paris last year and the city was terrifyingly dirty, with layers of dirt struck on the walls of beautiful buildings, darkened by it. Stuff under construction was also mismanaged and often just poorly done. Scaffolding was very poorly done all around the city. After midnight I felt quite unsafe even in good neighbourhoods. I feel like London as a city is way better kept than Paris

Jgrubb 7y ago
"Terrifyingly dirty"? The simple way they clean the gutters with the fountains on the corners is amazing to me as an American. Layers of dirt on beautiful buildings? They're several hundred years old. Felt quite unsafe even in good neighborhoods? I spent all last week there, on foot, at all hours alone and never once felt unsafe. It occurs to me now that maybe that's my male privilege so apologies if that's not the case for you but Paris is the greatest city in the world as far as I'm concerned.
- ThJ 7y ago
  My city (Oslo, Norway) also has buildings that are centuries old, but they are kept clean. When I went to Stockholm a couple of years back, their old buildings looked dirty because no one seemed to be cleaning them.
- brmgb 7y ago
  > "Terrifyingly dirty"? The simple way they clean the gutters with the fountains on the corners is amazing to me as an American. As a Parisian, I can sadly attest that the city is currently disgustingly dirty, that it has been getting worse and worse in the five years since I moved there and that London is indeed a lot cleaner. Paris suffers from a lot of incivilities, very lax policing, the current mayor puting cleanliness as a non priority and extremely poor supervision of the existing cleaning crews. It has become such a pain point for Parisian that cleanliness is likely to be the main issue of next year electoral campaign.
  - noobermin 7y ago

bsaul 7y ago

As a parisian who stayed in SF for a month last year, i can tell you SF is way better for pedestrians than Paris, without any question (except for the hills of course). Streets are wide enough that you never feel stuck in a line, there are trees everywhere, and the wind from the ocean makes the air feel very clean. The reason Paris is spending so much energy thinking about its organization is because it is ( and has always been) completely overcrowded with one of the highest population density in the world. For a city that’s almost 2 thousand years old, that’s an extremely difficult problem to tackle.

carlob 7y ago
> For a city that’s almost 2 thousand years old There is really not much of the city that wasn't redone by Haussmann at the end of the 19th century. Even remnants of medieval Paris are few outside of the Marais.
- baud147258 7y ago
  In addition to Haussmann's works, there's also all the reconstruction that had to took place after the Franco-Prussian war and its aftermath.
rdl 7y ago
I've spent months in both Paris and SF. I hate walking around SF, and enjoy walking around Paris, at least in the 1st-8th. Density is a feature for walking. Paris isn't perfect, but also has fewer piles of human excrement in the middle of the sidewalk, and in the cases you don't want to walk, the metro actually is usable. (Manhattan > Paris for walking and subway, but Paris is fine).
coldtea 7y ago
>As a parisian who stayed in SF for a month last year, i can tell you SF is way better for pedestrians than Paris, without any question (except for the hills of course). As a European that has visited both Paris and SF multiple times, Paris wins hands down... Modern Paris has its problems, but for a pedestrian there's no comparison with SF. (And let's not even get into the huge homeless/etc problem in SF)

baud147258 7y ago

The issue with such a project is that it's going to (again) increase the traffic jams in the Paris suburban area and push more traffic to the cities surrounding Paris; but since the mayor is only elected by the inhabitants of Paris, she doesn't have to take into account the impact of her decisions on the other cities around Paris.

Majestic121 7y ago
Most of the traffic in Paris actually comes from Paris : https://www.paris.fr/actualites/a-paris-seuls-22-des-conducteurs-ont-reellement-besoin-d-un-vehicule-3876 https://www.paris.fr/actualites/a-paris-seuls-22-des-conduct...
- baud147258 7y ago
  That figure is 4 years old and was done only in a very small area right in the middle of Paris, so the figure of 50% of drivers coming from Paris is not very useful.
- Twark 7y ago
  Please note that this study was ordered Paris city council, which tries to reduce actively the number of cars. The presentation is not totally neutral.

grumpydba 7y ago

> It speaks very well to their fiscal management too that they're able to fund the project through ticket sales, and don't need to levy any new taxes or bonds. Paris' current fiscal management is the worst the city has ever seen. The city's total debt grew from 1B euros in 2001 to 6B in 2018.

bbatha 7y ago

American cities across the country are tearing down beltways built in the 50s and 60s. San Francisco tearing down the Embarcadero Highway was the start of the movement.