5 ms·

Most Deep Learning papers related to tracking human pose, identifying abnormal behavior, detecting crime from video feeds etc. have Chinese authors. Literally b

by bitL 7y ago

Most Deep Learning papers related to tracking human pose, identifying abnormal behavior, detecting crime from video feeds etc. have Chinese authors. Literally bleeding-edge stuff used to subdue people. Can't wait to see some western politicians to hop on the same train once this tech is cheap after China beta-tests it and irons out all the quirks.

dheera 7y ago
There are also plenty of less dystopian uses for pose tracking, including games, cashless convenience stores, VR/AR applications, and driverless cars predicting pedestrian behavior.
- bitL 7y ago
  There are. I am using them myself which is why I had to read many recent papers about them. Though if you look specifically at activity detection, identifying abnormal movements associated with crime or social disturbance, Chinese authors dominate there. They probably receive many grants from their government on these specific topics.
- mschuster91 7y ago
  The key is that said "less dystopian" uses commoditize the technology that the governments can use to spy on its citizens without even spending any major amount of r&d investment. Hell, Alexa in a TV and you have a 1984 system - willingly installed by consumers, no less. A 1984 system that for all intents and purposes can be converted into a surveillance system per secret court order. The recent crackdowns on TOR darknet services are also frightening. While I'm not shedding tears for child porn distributors, the inevitable message that comes across with the monthly takedown press releases is "we can even get those with the best experience in using cryptography and hiding tools, how do you expect to organize resistance in case government goes the China way?" Maybe parts of the US could provide resistance given that many people have enough private firearms to make sure any kind of government intrusion will result in unbelievable bloodshed, but disarmed populations like many European countries? They will have no way to voice any opposing thought anymore. We already see this in Hungary where Orban's friends have all but eliminated free independent press or in Turkey where tens of thousands get arrested for "terrorism" charges.
  - JCharante 7y ago
    I've always heard that the US stands out from other Western countries due to the number of guns in its civilian populations. Is the ability to stand up to mass surveillance states something that people who want to take away guns take into account? In my time in the US I've only heard the argument of the US becoming a bad actor towards its civilian populations be dismissed. I also wonder if civilian populations have access to weapons in areas like Caracas. It'd certainly be terrifying to fight the military there, but the military is already mowing down protesters that are wielding sticks and stones.
    - andrenth 7y ago
      Venezuelan civilians were disarmed in 2014. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-29308509 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-29308509
    - wasdfff 7y ago
      That line of logic towards gun ownership made sense when the constitution was written, and the musket you owned was not far off from the musket a soldier was issued. What is your ar15 going to do to an unmanned drone six miles in the air? Or a missile launched from a battleship hundreds of miles off the coast? We’ve long passed the point of the second amendment. The only reason guns arent’t totally banned now is because how entrenched the arms industry is in american politics.
      - hkai 7y ago
        I was wondering that too, so I researched and the counterargument appears to be: - Vietnam won a war with primitive weapons against highly equipped American military - while the government can mass murder people with tanks and rockets, it is unlikely to do so. If in 2019 there was an armed uprising against let's say Trump, it could succeed.
- sixothree 7y ago
  Plowshare?
dv_dt 7y ago
The western politicians already subdue minorities via the Justice and financial systems. Just look at our incarceration rate, and differential outcomes for the same crimes. No need to buy flashy new tech for it.
- chrischen 7y ago
  This reminds me of a scene in the book To Kill a Mockingbird where some old white ladies are talking about the poor people in Africa while they treat their own Black servants poorly.
- dredmorbius 7y ago
  Foucalt and Chomsky on institutinal control, 1971. https://youtube.com/watch?v=J5wuB_p63YM https://youtube.com/watch?v=J5wuB_p63YM
- vorpalhex 7y ago
  Differential outcomes and putting your muslim population into "re-education camps" without trial sure is apples to apples...
  - dv_dt 7y ago
    Muslims in re-education camps sounds a lot like systematic high-rate incarceration of minorities to me. Look at something as mundane as cash bail in our justice system. It's something that systematically knocks poor and minority people into a tailspin of financial and life woes. Rich people systematically walk free, poor people who can't pay, wait in jail, sometimes years for their trial date. Compared to China, I would agree that the US crucially does have more political freedom to change things like this - but the actual state of things means we need to exercise those freedoms while we still can. https://www.pewtrusts.org/en/research-and-analysis/blogs/stateline/2017/03/01/locked-up-is-cash-bail-on-the-way-out https://www.pewtrusts.org/en/research-and-analysis/blogs/sta...
    - sonnyblarney 7y ago
      "Muslims in re-education camps sounds a lot like systematic high-rate incarceration of minorities to me." This is a beyond troubling bit of moral relativism. The difference between 'arbitrary incarceration based on ethnicity' - and 'detention based on reasonable likelihood of committing violent crime' is a mile wide. You're literally comparing the rounding up of an ethnic minority and placement in internment camps, to the fact that there's a higher crime rate in some areas in the US. FYI nothing in your reference indicates necessarily that there is injustice in the bail system, rather there could be changes to create better outcomes.

by bitL 7y ago

dheera 7y ago

There are also plenty of less dystopian uses for pose tracking, including games, cashless convenience stores, VR/AR applications, and driverless cars predicting pedestrian behavior.

bitL 7y ago
There are. I am using them myself which is why I had to read many recent papers about them. Though if you look specifically at activity detection, identifying abnormal movements associated with crime or social disturbance, Chinese authors dominate there. They probably receive many grants from their government on these specific topics.
mschuster91 7y ago
The key is that said "less dystopian" uses commoditize the technology that the governments can use to spy on its citizens without even spending any major amount of r&d investment. Hell, Alexa in a TV and you have a 1984 system - willingly installed by consumers, no less. A 1984 system that for all intents and purposes can be converted into a surveillance system per secret court order. The recent crackdowns on TOR darknet services are also frightening. While I'm not shedding tears for child porn distributors, the inevitable message that comes across with the monthly takedown press releases is "we can even get those with the best experience in using cryptography and hiding tools, how do you expect to organize resistance in case government goes the China way?" Maybe parts of the US could provide resistance given that many people have enough private firearms to make sure any kind of government intrusion will result in unbelievable bloodshed, but disarmed populations like many European countries? They will have no way to voice any opposing thought anymore. We already see this in Hungary where Orban's friends have all but eliminated free independent press or in Turkey where tens of thousands get arrested for "terrorism" charges.
- JCharante 7y ago
  I've always heard that the US stands out from other Western countries due to the number of guns in its civilian populations. Is the ability to stand up to mass surveillance states something that people who want to take away guns take into account? In my time in the US I've only heard the argument of the US becoming a bad actor towards its civilian populations be dismissed. I also wonder if civilian populations have access to weapons in areas like Caracas. It'd certainly be terrifying to fight the military there, but the military is already mowing down protesters that are wielding sticks and stones.
  - andrenth 7y ago
    Venezuelan civilians were disarmed in 2014. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-29308509 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-29308509
  - wasdfff 7y ago
    That line of logic towards gun ownership made sense when the constitution was written, and the musket you owned was not far off from the musket a soldier was issued. What is your ar15 going to do to an unmanned drone six miles in the air? Or a missile launched from a battleship hundreds of miles off the coast? We’ve long passed the point of the second amendment. The only reason guns arent’t totally banned now is because how entrenched the arms industry is in american politics.
    - hkai 7y ago
      I was wondering that too, so I researched and the counterargument appears to be: - Vietnam won a war with primitive weapons against highly equipped American military - while the government can mass murder people with tanks and rockets, it is unlikely to do so. If in 2019 there was an armed uprising against let's say Trump, it could succeed.
sixothree 7y ago
Plowshare?

dv_dt 7y ago

The western politicians already subdue minorities via the Justice and financial systems. Just look at our incarceration rate, and differential outcomes for the same crimes. No need to buy flashy new tech for it.

chrischen 7y ago
This reminds me of a scene in the book To Kill a Mockingbird where some old white ladies are talking about the poor people in Africa while they treat their own Black servants poorly.
dredmorbius 7y ago
Foucalt and Chomsky on institutinal control, 1971. https://youtube.com/watch?v=J5wuB_p63YM https://youtube.com/watch?v=J5wuB_p63YM
vorpalhex 7y ago
Differential outcomes and putting your muslim population into "re-education camps" without trial sure is apples to apples...
- dv_dt 7y ago
  Muslims in re-education camps sounds a lot like systematic high-rate incarceration of minorities to me. Look at something as mundane as cash bail in our justice system. It's something that systematically knocks poor and minority people into a tailspin of financial and life woes. Rich people systematically walk free, poor people who can't pay, wait in jail, sometimes years for their trial date. Compared to China, I would agree that the US crucially does have more political freedom to change things like this - but the actual state of things means we need to exercise those freedoms while we still can. https://www.pewtrusts.org/en/research-and-analysis/blogs/stateline/2017/03/01/locked-up-is-cash-bail-on-the-way-out https://www.pewtrusts.org/en/research-and-analysis/blogs/sta...
  - sonnyblarney 7y ago
    "Muslims in re-education camps sounds a lot like systematic high-rate incarceration of minorities to me." This is a beyond troubling bit of moral relativism. The difference between 'arbitrary incarceration based on ethnicity' - and 'detention based on reasonable likelihood of committing violent crime' is a mile wide. You're literally comparing the rounding up of an ethnic minority and placement in internment camps, to the fact that there's a higher crime rate in some areas in the US. FYI nothing in your reference indicates necessarily that there is injustice in the bail system, rather there could be changes to create better outcomes.