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>Of course irrationality will prevail when it comes to any comments about ads on HN though. Elucidation would be appreciated: How does irrationality prevail?

manigandham 7y ago
The constant downvotes and endless snarky comments that ignore the fact that 2 of the biggest companies on the planet are ad networks which have provided tremendous value to both customers and shareholders, and are a key ingredient in the marketing and growth of basically every business. The ignorance that advertising itself is a fine model that subsidizes 99% of the content on the internet and allows for fast, easy, and egalitarian access for billions of people, as well as increased opportunity for creators of all kinds. And finally the obliviousness to the technical and business solutions that already exist to make the experience better instead of going down an endless arms race where nobody wins.
- maxheadroom 7y ago
  >The constant downvotes and endless snarky comments that ignore the fact that 2 of the biggest companies on the planet are ad networks which have provided tremendous value to both customers and shareholders, and are a key ingredient in the marketing and growth of basically every business. I think wording it as "tremendous value" is a stretch but that's just me. Also, businesses are fully able to grow without the likes of the two biggest companies. So, not every business has those companies as a key ingredient. It's not a "too big too fail", doomsday scenario, where the (business) wold is entirely dependent on the two companies to exist, yeah? >The ignorance that advertising itself is a fine model that subsidizes 99% of the content on the internet and allows for fast, easy, and egalitarian access for billions of people, as well as increased opportunity for creators of all kinds. You're delineating in your own retort and creating double-speak. Advertising, as a whole, can be fine but the two aforementioned companies can be total shit. That doesn't create a dichotomy or ignorance. You're already speaking about your audience as unwilling to view your arguments but you treat them as ignorant, which means you're unwilling to be malliable in your own view and see it from their perspective. Isn't that ignorance, in and of itself? :) >And finally the(y are) obliviousness to the technical and business solutions that already exist to make the experience better instead of going down an endless arms race where nobody wins. I don't think taking a stance that your solutions are the only ones that work and because no one will accept them, it's an arms race to the bottom is conducive to anything. If anything, that leads directly to your aforementioned arms race to the bottom. To spin it a different way and benefit your supposed enemy in discourse: Advertising markets worked fine before the two big companies, yeah? The internet still existed? Pages were able to be reached in a fast, easy, egalitarian, and free way, yeah? Aside from that model being "dead", simply because it's no longer used, why do you believe that this is such an implicitly binary situation of the two companies must exist and be allowed free rampant growth or nothing at all? I hope that you take this as constructive criticism but it would seem to me, from this exchange, that it's you who's coming to these conversations not willing to listen.
  - manigandham 7y ago
    You focused entirely on the companies. That's not the point at all. Advertising is a core part of the marketing necessary to grow a business and thus a core part of the overall economy. It will always exist and be served by major companies from the sheer size of the total spend, whether it's Google and Facebook or someone else. And advertising is the only model that has paid for the vast majority of commercial content online today, and is incomparable to some time in the past where that didn't exist. You can search my name if you want the background [1] because I'm not what you assume I am. Regulation and privacy are not the problem, it's the lack of any cooperation and workable solutions. Adtech looks for efficiency, not more workarounds to battle giant corporations like Apple which ignore industry concerns while being contradictory in their own actions. 1. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19593812 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19593812

manigandham 7y ago

The constant downvotes and endless snarky comments that ignore the fact that 2 of the biggest companies on the planet are ad networks which have provided tremendous value to both customers and shareholders, and are a key ingredient in the marketing and growth of basically every business. The ignorance that advertising itself is a fine model that subsidizes 99% of the content on the internet and allows for fast, easy, and egalitarian access for billions of people, as well as increased opportunity for creators of all kinds. And finally the obliviousness to the technical and business solutions that already exist to make the experience better instead of going down an endless arms race where nobody wins.

maxheadroom 7y ago
>The constant downvotes and endless snarky comments that ignore the fact that 2 of the biggest companies on the planet are ad networks which have provided tremendous value to both customers and shareholders, and are a key ingredient in the marketing and growth of basically every business. I think wording it as "tremendous value" is a stretch but that's just me. Also, businesses are fully able to grow without the likes of the two biggest companies. So, not every business has those companies as a key ingredient. It's not a "too big too fail", doomsday scenario, where the (business) wold is entirely dependent on the two companies to exist, yeah? >The ignorance that advertising itself is a fine model that subsidizes 99% of the content on the internet and allows for fast, easy, and egalitarian access for billions of people, as well as increased opportunity for creators of all kinds. You're delineating in your own retort and creating double-speak. Advertising, as a whole, can be fine but the two aforementioned companies can be total shit. That doesn't create a dichotomy or ignorance. You're already speaking about your audience as unwilling to view your arguments but you treat them as ignorant, which means you're unwilling to be malliable in your own view and see it from their perspective. Isn't that ignorance, in and of itself? :) >And finally the(y are) obliviousness to the technical and business solutions that already exist to make the experience better instead of going down an endless arms race where nobody wins. I don't think taking a stance that your solutions are the only ones that work and because no one will accept them, it's an arms race to the bottom is conducive to anything. If anything, that leads directly to your aforementioned arms race to the bottom. To spin it a different way and benefit your supposed enemy in discourse: Advertising markets worked fine before the two big companies, yeah? The internet still existed? Pages were able to be reached in a fast, easy, egalitarian, and free way, yeah? Aside from that model being "dead", simply because it's no longer used, why do you believe that this is such an implicitly binary situation of the two companies must exist and be allowed free rampant growth or nothing at all? I hope that you take this as constructive criticism but it would seem to me, from this exchange, that it's you who's coming to these conversations not willing to listen.
- manigandham 7y ago
  You focused entirely on the companies. That's not the point at all. Advertising is a core part of the marketing necessary to grow a business and thus a core part of the overall economy. It will always exist and be served by major companies from the sheer size of the total spend, whether it's Google and Facebook or someone else. And advertising is the only model that has paid for the vast majority of commercial content online today, and is incomparable to some time in the past where that didn't exist. You can search my name if you want the background [1] because I'm not what you assume I am. Regulation and privacy are not the problem, it's the lack of any cooperation and workable solutions. Adtech looks for efficiency, not more workarounds to battle giant corporations like Apple which ignore industry concerns while being contradictory in their own actions. 1. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19593812 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19593812