4 ms·

Google and Binomial Open-Source Basis Universal Texture Format

265 points by jasondavies 7y ago

edwintorok 7y ago
There is a paper describing the technique here: http://gamma.cs.unc.edu/GST/gst.pdf http://gamma.cs.unc.edu/GST/gst.pdf
- Scaevolus 7y ago
  That paper described the inspiration for Basis, but Basis itself is slightly different. https://github.com/binomialLLC/basis_universal#quick-basis-file-details https://github.com/binomialLLC/basis_universal#quick-basis-f... > Internally, Basis files are composed of a non-uniform texture array of one or more 2D ETC1S texture "slices". ETC1S is a simple subset of the ETC1 texture format popular on Android.
yingw787 7y ago
This is amazing to me from an outsider's point of view; I thought Binomial was a two-person shop (idk if they expanded recently). To be able to partner with Google and Chrome Media on an equal level just doesn't seem possible to me. Binomial must have some pretty nice tech. Congratulations on the partnership!
- sanxiyn 7y ago
  They are still two persons. https://twitter.com/sehurlburt/status/1131371251790835712 https://twitter.com/sehurlburt/status/1131371251790835712
  - yingw787 7y ago
    Thanks for the link!
- flohofwoe 7y ago
  Well, they fixed a problem none of the GPU makers is interesting in solving directly: providing a common image compression format for 3D rendering. This is all a patent-encumbered mess, and the reason we are in this mess are the GPU vendors alone. When Microsoft still had power over desktop computing, it pretty much dictated GPU vendors to use the DXT image compression format which is supported on all desktop GPUs, but nothing similar has happened on mobile. In the current situation, this problem couldn't have been solved from the "inside". It isn't a trivial problem by far to solve (probably one of the few topics in programming that deserve the name "rocket science"), but it also doesn't require a huge workforce or standardization committee (and thank goodness this hasn't been "designed-by-committee"), "just" many years of focus and dedication.
nod 7y ago
Congratulations to https://twitter.com/sehurlburt https://twitter.com/sehurlburt ! ...who is also a font of interesting and insightful business advice and life/growth thoughts
- emit_time 7y ago
  Seconded. Very friendly too :)
modeless 7y ago
Compressed texture formats are underused. I think few people outside of game development understand the benefits. The linked post explains it but I'd like to take a stab at it too. Regular image compression formats like PNG or JPEG save network bandwidth and disk storage but not RAM. They must be completely decompressed and stored uncompressed in RAM as long as they are displayed. Compressed texture formats do save RAM. They remain compressed in RAM while they are being displayed, typically 1/6 the size of regular images or even smaller. That saves not only RAM but memory bandwidth and power too; especially important on mobile. Switching to compressed textures can make applications significantly faster. Compressed texture formats have two main disadvantages that Basis solves. One is that their compression ratios are fixed and not as good as JPEG. Basis adds extra compression to make them more comparable to JPEG on disk. The other, larger issue is that compressed texture formats require hardware support on the GPU, and GPUs don't agree on what formats to support. There is no single format with guaranteed support on every platform, which means that cross platform applications must encode each image multiple times and ship different formats to different users. Basis solves this by efficient runtime transcoding to most common GPU formats. This capability is unique and a really big deal. Anyone with images in their application should take a look at Basis. Now that you can ship a single compressed texture file that's supported everywhere, I hope that this technology can expand beyond games.
- throwaway2048 7y ago
  Part of the issue is they have been patented to the hilt by parties like S3. It hasn't been an issue in video games because companies just agree to implement other S3 apis in return for a patent license, but in cases like this that obviously isn't an option. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S3_Texture_Compression https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S3_Texture_Compression It has been an obstacle for open source drivers too, but luckily this specific patent expired.
- markdog12 7y ago
  > beyond games Accept: image/basis
- CMCDragonkai 7y ago
  Could this be used for convolutional neural networks?
markdog12 7y ago
Three.js already supports it: https://github.com/mrdoob/three.js/pull/16522 https://github.com/mrdoob/three.js/pull/16522
manigandham 7y ago
Is this going to lead to a new general image format? What happens with webp? That seemed to have never taken off much because of legacy support.
ttoinou 7y ago
Is anyone thinking of adapting this create a new GPU-based video format ? Like HAP https://hap.video/ https://hap.video/

265 points by jasondavies 7y ago

edwintorok 7y ago

There is a paper describing the technique here: http://gamma.cs.unc.edu/GST/gst.pdf http://gamma.cs.unc.edu/GST/gst.pdf

Scaevolus 7y ago
That paper described the inspiration for Basis, but Basis itself is slightly different. https://github.com/binomialLLC/basis_universal#quick-basis-file-details https://github.com/binomialLLC/basis_universal#quick-basis-f... > Internally, Basis files are composed of a non-uniform texture array of one or more 2D ETC1S texture "slices". ETC1S is a simple subset of the ETC1 texture format popular on Android.

yingw787 7y ago

This is amazing to me from an outsider's point of view; I thought Binomial was a two-person shop (idk if they expanded recently). To be able to partner with Google and Chrome Media on an equal level just doesn't seem possible to me. Binomial must have some pretty nice tech. Congratulations on the partnership!

sanxiyn 7y ago
They are still two persons. https://twitter.com/sehurlburt/status/1131371251790835712 https://twitter.com/sehurlburt/status/1131371251790835712
- yingw787 7y ago
  Thanks for the link!
flohofwoe 7y ago
Well, they fixed a problem none of the GPU makers is interesting in solving directly: providing a common image compression format for 3D rendering. This is all a patent-encumbered mess, and the reason we are in this mess are the GPU vendors alone. When Microsoft still had power over desktop computing, it pretty much dictated GPU vendors to use the DXT image compression format which is supported on all desktop GPUs, but nothing similar has happened on mobile. In the current situation, this problem couldn't have been solved from the "inside". It isn't a trivial problem by far to solve (probably one of the few topics in programming that deserve the name "rocket science"), but it also doesn't require a huge workforce or standardization committee (and thank goodness this hasn't been "designed-by-committee"), "just" many years of focus and dedication.

nod 7y ago

Congratulations to https://twitter.com/sehurlburt https://twitter.com/sehurlburt ! ...who is also a font of interesting and insightful business advice and life/growth thoughts

emit_time 7y ago
Seconded. Very friendly too :)

modeless 7y ago

Compressed texture formats are underused. I think few people outside of game development understand the benefits. The linked post explains it but I'd like to take a stab at it too. Regular image compression formats like PNG or JPEG save network bandwidth and disk storage but not RAM. They must be completely decompressed and stored uncompressed in RAM as long as they are displayed. Compressed texture formats do save RAM. They remain compressed in RAM while they are being displayed, typically 1/6 the size of regular images or even smaller. That saves not only RAM but memory bandwidth and power too; especially important on mobile. Switching to compressed textures can make applications significantly faster. Compressed texture formats have two main disadvantages that Basis solves. One is that their compression ratios are fixed and not as good as JPEG. Basis adds extra compression to make them more comparable to JPEG on disk. The other, larger issue is that compressed texture formats require hardware support on the GPU, and GPUs don't agree on what formats to support. There is no single format with guaranteed support on every platform, which means that cross platform applications must encode each image multiple times and ship different formats to different users. Basis solves this by efficient runtime transcoding to most common GPU formats. This capability is unique and a really big deal. Anyone with images in their application should take a look at Basis. Now that you can ship a single compressed texture file that's supported everywhere, I hope that this technology can expand beyond games.

throwaway2048 7y ago
Part of the issue is they have been patented to the hilt by parties like S3. It hasn't been an issue in video games because companies just agree to implement other S3 apis in return for a patent license, but in cases like this that obviously isn't an option. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S3_Texture_Compression https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S3_Texture_Compression It has been an obstacle for open source drivers too, but luckily this specific patent expired.
markdog12 7y ago
> beyond games Accept: image/basis
CMCDragonkai 7y ago
Could this be used for convolutional neural networks?

markdog12 7y ago

Three.js already supports it: https://github.com/mrdoob/three.js/pull/16522 https://github.com/mrdoob/three.js/pull/16522

manigandham 7y ago

Is this going to lead to a new general image format? What happens with webp? That seemed to have never taken off much because of legacy support.

ttoinou 7y ago

Is anyone thinking of adapting this create a new GPU-based video format ? Like HAP https://hap.video/ https://hap.video/