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I'm sorry, but you seem to not understand the realities of how this industry works. Even if a utility wants to retire an unprofitable coal unit, they might not

I'm sorry, but you seem to not understand the realities of how this industry works. Even if a utility wants to retire an unprofitable coal unit, they might not be allowed to do so (by the state) if they're still paying it off. Let's also say they want to retire their entire fleet and go to renewables as you suggest. Will they be allowed to raise rates to pay for the millions of dollars necessary to do so? How will the poor afford a new and expensive bill? Also, although I would agree that this is good for the environment and could be vital to survival as a species, are you ok with a less reliable grid? I am, but this isn't an easy sell. I can tell you right now that there isn't enough storage that can be built anytime soon to make a rush transition for the nation. Hawaii is working on this, and they are tiny with abundant sun. But what happens in bad weather when the sun doesn't shine for a week? They need many multiples of their total capacity in storage to avoid rolling blackouts. I'm not saying it is impossible, but there are big hurdles without making this the Federal government's most important issue. There might be some of what you talk of as well with some groups resisting change (of course there is), but in reality it isn't as simple as all utilities are evil. The reality is that there are huge changes already going on in industry that are happening about as fast as we can go. Renewable integration is happening and very quickly. The fuel-mix in my region has shifted from only a few percent of renewables into the majority of what we have online at times. This huge progress has occurred in less than a decade! This is a huge technological and social problem. Please do keep up your interest and sense of urgency though. Public opinion will be the primary motivator of Washington.

jonknee 7y ago
> Even if a utility wants to retire an unprofitable coal unit, they might not be allowed to do so (by the state) if they're still paying it off. Let's also say they want to retire their entire fleet and go to renewables as you suggest. Will they be allowed to raise rates to pay for the millions of dollars necessary to do so? ... Read what the OP said: > if we actually had the help of the federal government (via grants, etc)
- new4thaccount 7y ago
  They are actually becoming increasingly involved in this area by mandating certain energy market changes like reducing barriers for energy storage. It's a process though. If I misunderstood some of the intent of the post I was responding to, they have my sincerest apology.
marak830 7y ago
"Even if a utility wants to retire an unprofitable coal unit, they might not be allowed to do so (by the state) if they're still paying it off." 'sell' it to a subsidiary and bankrupt it. Or act like a bani and pretend it's too big to fail. There are many ways to ditch an asset if you want to. "Let's also say they want to retire their entire fleet and go to renewables as you suggest. Will they be allowed to raise rates to pay for the millions of dollars necessary to do so?" If they can't afford it then they should have looked at the coming markets and ideals of the users. :Note I read the rest of your comment and agreed with your sentiment. To an extent. But you cannot argue in good faith that the companies that have been making bank without caring a single whit about the environmental cost are somehow the good guys when they have to start considering it. We have seen recently that bp knew in the 80's of the effect of excessive fuel consumption on global warming. To think that they were the only large company in a similar industry to realise this is just sticking your head in the sand. Shit has to change. We are running out of options, and frankly if some of these companies go under because they didn't prepare based on knowledge they more than likely knew, well stiff fucking shit. I'm in a world where my son has to deal with the consequences of the previous generation, and to an extent my own actions before I had learnt enough to know. It's time to own up, act in the best interest of everyone as a whole. If you don't, well, don't come crying to me when people start taking drastic action. Edit: a few words, on a mobile.
- new4thaccount 7y ago
  I sympathize with where you're coming from. There needs to probably be a unified response from each country to make this transition happen as soon as possible. Please keep in mind that building a coal plant wasn't a dumb idea 20 years ago where we had forecasted load growth, expensive natural gas, and renewables weren't a thing.
ZeroGravitas 7y ago
Why would retiring unprofitable coal plants raise prices? Closing them all would save US consumers 10 billion a year, just in electricity costs. No Country for Coal Gen report https://www.carbontracker.org/reports/no-country-for-coal-gen-below-2c-and-regulatory-risk-for-us-coal-power-owners/ https://www.carbontracker.org/reports/no-country-for-coal-ge...
- new4thaccount 7y ago
  In the energy market things would be cheaper when replacing it with renewables, but spending billions on additional wind farms, solar, and storage has a steep initial price tag. You'd also have to spend billions on transmission to connect all the new generation to the grid. That or mass scale microgrids which would be cheaper, but still very expensive.
  - ZeroGravitas 7y ago
    Expensive up-front things that save you money can be bought with loans and paid off with future savings.
    - new4thaccount 7y ago
      Agreed, but the key difference is that this is not only massively expensive, but will require years of construction and the coordination of millions of people. To make that happen, FERC is trying to incent the right market conditions and some are occurring naturally.

jonknee 7y ago

> Even if a utility wants to retire an unprofitable coal unit, they might not be allowed to do so (by the state) if they're still paying it off. Let's also say they want to retire their entire fleet and go to renewables as you suggest. Will they be allowed to raise rates to pay for the millions of dollars necessary to do so? ... Read what the OP said: > if we actually had the help of the federal government (via grants, etc)

new4thaccount 7y ago
They are actually becoming increasingly involved in this area by mandating certain energy market changes like reducing barriers for energy storage. It's a process though. If I misunderstood some of the intent of the post I was responding to, they have my sincerest apology.

marak830 7y ago

"Even if a utility wants to retire an unprofitable coal unit, they might not be allowed to do so (by the state) if they're still paying it off." 'sell' it to a subsidiary and bankrupt it. Or act like a bani and pretend it's too big to fail. There are many ways to ditch an asset if you want to. "Let's also say they want to retire their entire fleet and go to renewables as you suggest. Will they be allowed to raise rates to pay for the millions of dollars necessary to do so?" If they can't afford it then they should have looked at the coming markets and ideals of the users. :Note I read the rest of your comment and agreed with your sentiment. To an extent. But you cannot argue in good faith that the companies that have been making bank without caring a single whit about the environmental cost are somehow the good guys when they have to start considering it. We have seen recently that bp knew in the 80's of the effect of excessive fuel consumption on global warming. To think that they were the only large company in a similar industry to realise this is just sticking your head in the sand. Shit has to change. We are running out of options, and frankly if some of these companies go under because they didn't prepare based on knowledge they more than likely knew, well stiff fucking shit. I'm in a world where my son has to deal with the consequences of the previous generation, and to an extent my own actions before I had learnt enough to know. It's time to own up, act in the best interest of everyone as a whole. If you don't, well, don't come crying to me when people start taking drastic action. Edit: a few words, on a mobile.

new4thaccount 7y ago
I sympathize with where you're coming from. There needs to probably be a unified response from each country to make this transition happen as soon as possible. Please keep in mind that building a coal plant wasn't a dumb idea 20 years ago where we had forecasted load growth, expensive natural gas, and renewables weren't a thing.

ZeroGravitas 7y ago

Why would retiring unprofitable coal plants raise prices? Closing them all would save US consumers 10 billion a year, just in electricity costs. No Country for Coal Gen report https://www.carbontracker.org/reports/no-country-for-coal-gen-below-2c-and-regulatory-risk-for-us-coal-power-owners/ https://www.carbontracker.org/reports/no-country-for-coal-ge...

new4thaccount 7y ago
In the energy market things would be cheaper when replacing it with renewables, but spending billions on additional wind farms, solar, and storage has a steep initial price tag. You'd also have to spend billions on transmission to connect all the new generation to the grid. That or mass scale microgrids which would be cheaper, but still very expensive.
- ZeroGravitas 7y ago
  Expensive up-front things that save you money can be bought with loans and paid off with future savings.
  - new4thaccount 7y ago
    Agreed, but the key difference is that this is not only massively expensive, but will require years of construction and the coordination of millions of people. To make that happen, FERC is trying to incent the right market conditions and some are occurring naturally.