3 ms·
The problem, from what I can tell, is that many men only understand hard rules. It used to be that if you had good intentions, you could follow a clear set of (
by _bxg1 7y ago
The problem, from what I can tell, is that many men only understand hard rules. It used to be that if you had good intentions, you could follow a clear set of (flawed) social rules and you were "safe". But there aren't clear rules to distinguish between flirting and minor harassment; the difference isn't based on exactly which words are said, but on understanding what another person is and isn't feeling. Navigating those lines requires emotional intelligence, and lots of men have underdeveloped emotional intelligence, and are used to relying on do's and don'ts in its place. In today's climate, those people are basically navigating a mine field without a metal detector. So it's understandable that they would just avoid the field altogether.
I think this is mostly a social problem - for a long time men simply weren't taught emotional intelligence while they were growing up. There's definitely been some progress made lately, but that doesn't help past generations. I don't know what the solution is for those people, but right now everyone's talking past each other and I think it's because this hasn't been articulated. Can emotional nuances even really scale to professional contexts? I don't know. Maybe. I sympathize with people who have had uncomfortable experiences within the existing set of social guidelines, but maybe what we need is a new set of rules for those settings. The fact is that there are men out there who want to do the right thing, but suddenly find its precise definition bewildering and hard to follow. If something can be done to alleviate that, it should be.
For the record: the above only covers men who find themselves under fire despite good intentions. There are absolutely others who consciously and systematically abuse women. Though Harvey Weinstein hasn't been officially convicted yet, the evidence is strong that he's one of the latter. The problem, though, is that the public conversation lumps the two categories together.
- belltaco 7y agoThat's a good point but it's also that women tend to vary a lot when it comes to what's acceptable and what's not. Also the same woman may see things differently based on current mood.
- _bxg1 7y ago> women tend to vary a lot when it comes to what's acceptable and what's not In literal terms perhaps, but not in emotional terms. You can pick up on what a person is and isn't comfortable with, what is and isn't solicited, etc. The tricky thing, for some people, is that these usually aren't spelled out letter by letter. A stranger at a bar and a colleague in your workplace may have very different definitions of acceptable behavior, but the ways they communicate it are going to be more or less the same. > the same woman may see things differently based on current mood That seems inaccurate and honestly sexist. But more importantly, as above, the signals will still work the same way, even if the things being signaled change.
- arnmac 7y agoAs I tell my children it doesn't matter what you actually do or intended your action to be. It is all in what is perceived and interpreted by the other person. This is the problem that everyone's perception and interpretation can be entirely different from each others.
- _bxg1 7y agoThat seems terribly misguided. Intent may not be the biggest factor in terms of outcomes, but it's certainly the most important factor in terms of morality and personal development. Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you meant by "it doesn't matter", but it's a horrible idea to teach the literal interpretation of that message.
- zelon88 7y agoI don't think he means "your intentions don't matter at all." What he's saying is that yout intentions don't matter to the person you affected. They don't care if you were just tying your shoe or taking an upskirt picture. They feel violated and you caused it. Your intention is entirely irrelevant to that persons recollection of events.
- _bxg1 7y agoNevertheless it also matters when it comes to feelings of guilt. It's easy to feel guilty for things you didn't intend (or cause via negligence). Being self-aware enough to not put yourself through that emotional burden is important too.