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I'm hardly an Oracle (née Sun in this context) booster; i.e. as a Clojure partisan, I'm all too aware of the benign neglect that comes with using the JVM but no

I'm hardly an Oracle (née Sun in this context) booster; i.e. as a Clojure partisan, I'm all too aware of the benign neglect that comes with using the JVM but not Java, and with vaporware (JWebPane, anyone?). All that said, I'm happy enough to be Charlie Brown and take a run at this football. Cynicism leads to either resigning myself to using Javascript forever for client side stuff, something I just couldn't swallow psychologically.

aaronblohowiak 16y ago
Why do you hate JavaScript so much? You can thoroughly ignore all notions of classes and use it as a lesser scheme.
- cemerick 16y ago
  Javascript is a bad language with poor libraries, and I'm forced to use it. I've said before: if it weren't for its distribution, it simply wouldn't be used. If given other choices (emphasis on the plural there), not one developer would opt for Javascript. "The good parts" of Javascript get a lot of play, but I don't want to have cope by using patterns and avoiding the dull, broken bits that go along for the ride...and I'm surprised that many (most?) other competent developers that wouldn't put up with such compromises in their "real" languages aren't as irritated about Javascript as I have been.
  - somnium 16y ago
    Some percentage of developers do choose Javascript among multiple choices: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JavaScript#Uses_outside_web_pages http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JavaScript#Uses_outside_web_pag...
    - detst 16y ago
      Stockholm syndrome?
  - p_nathan 16y ago
    agreed - it was initially developed in about 10 days of caffeine, and it shows. gorram it, jwz.
    - dpritchett 16y ago
      Brendan, right? http://www.jwz.org/blog/2010/10/every-day-i-learn-something-new-and-stupid/#comment-1018 http://www.jwz.org/blog/2010/10/every-day-i-learn-something-...
      - p_nathan 16y ago
        doh, ja
  - sedachv 16y ago
    "Javascript is a bad language with poor libraries, and I'm forced to use it." The same can be said for any programming language that you don't like.
    - jpr 16y ago
      No it can't. Browser is pretty much the only platform where you have to use a certain language.
      - sedachv 16y ago
        I suppose you've never had to work a day job at a "real" company before?
  - simonw 16y ago
    "If given other choices (emphasis on the plural there), not one developer would opt for Javascript" How do you explain the recent widespread enthusiasm for Node.js, including from server-side engineers with little to no previous JavaScript experience?

aaronblohowiak 16y ago

Why do you hate JavaScript so much? You can thoroughly ignore all notions of classes and use it as a lesser scheme.

cemerick 16y ago
Javascript is a bad language with poor libraries, and I'm forced to use it. I've said before: if it weren't for its distribution, it simply wouldn't be used. If given other choices (emphasis on the plural there), not one developer would opt for Javascript. "The good parts" of Javascript get a lot of play, but I don't want to have cope by using patterns and avoiding the dull, broken bits that go along for the ride...and I'm surprised that many (most?) other competent developers that wouldn't put up with such compromises in their "real" languages aren't as irritated about Javascript as I have been.
- somnium 16y ago
  Some percentage of developers do choose Javascript among multiple choices: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JavaScript#Uses_outside_web_pages http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JavaScript#Uses_outside_web_pag...
  - detst 16y ago
    Stockholm syndrome?
- p_nathan 16y ago
  agreed - it was initially developed in about 10 days of caffeine, and it shows. gorram it, jwz.
  - dpritchett 16y ago
    Brendan, right? http://www.jwz.org/blog/2010/10/every-day-i-learn-something-new-and-stupid/#comment-1018 http://www.jwz.org/blog/2010/10/every-day-i-learn-something-...
    - p_nathan 16y ago
      doh, ja
- sedachv 16y ago
  "Javascript is a bad language with poor libraries, and I'm forced to use it." The same can be said for any programming language that you don't like.
  - jpr 16y ago
    No it can't. Browser is pretty much the only platform where you have to use a certain language.
    - sedachv 16y ago
      I suppose you've never had to work a day job at a "real" company before?
- simonw 16y ago
  "If given other choices (emphasis on the plural there), not one developer would opt for Javascript" How do you explain the recent widespread enthusiasm for Node.js, including from server-side engineers with little to no previous JavaScript experience?