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Meanwhile, the EU is trying to somewhat cut off Google's monopoly on Android, by telling them they can't force manufacturers to use their software. Now, people

Meanwhile, the EU is trying to somewhat cut off Google's monopoly on Android, by telling them they can't force manufacturers to use their software. Now, people in Asia are complaining that they can't access Google's stuff. It seems like a bit off that Huawei, which, IIRC, was part of that group of companies that was complaining about Google's monopoly, doesn't have a good replacement for Google's services.

ggg2 7y ago
one thing just exacerbates the other. why do you think they should have had an alternative ready if they did fall (like us all) for google's empty promises of an open system? case in point f-droid: open source playStore alternative. go see how many confirmations and special settings you have to figure out to be able to use. another: mozilla location services and UnifiedNlp. two full replacement for google location via wifi. google completely broke the hability to use it deliberately and for no good technical reason (it is trivial if you have root. literally just change one setting that was only added to block the existing feature of setting a new location backend provider)
antome 7y ago
The problem is that the play store is a monopoly. If neither Amazon nor Samsung can create an app store with even a small fraction of the total useful apps found on the play store, who can? And if you can't find one particular app on the Amazon/Samsung store, why bother at all?
- cobookman 7y ago
  They can create an app store on Android. Nobody is stopping them. The same can't be said for ios
  - benatkin 7y ago
    Huawei could make a UI toolkit similar to iOS, and use the Swift open source project, and encourage developers to port their iOS apps.
    - throwayEngineer 7y ago
      This seems like an expensive risky overkill to trust Apple, when JavaScript solutions work on every platform.
  - eridan2 7y ago
    They can create an Android Store. But many apps depends on Google APIs or applications (Maps, Drive, Contacts, etc) and will require changes.
- Theodores 7y ago
  Times change. Why build an app and have an app store if you can do it with a PWA? There is only one 'killer app' on my phone - WhatsApp. I need my phone to access that through a PC and therefore need the app. Years ago I had a lot more apps, nowadays I am 'meh' and never visit the Play Store. Anecdotal, but, as mentioned, PWA has arrived and that means that an app store is not strictly needed like how it was before HTML5 arrived.
- vbezhenar 7y ago
  Google App Store is not a monopoly. You can build Android-based OS with your own store. Google spend some resources attracting developers. Huawei can do the same. May be even attract some exclusive software.
supertiger 7y ago
you didn't RC. Huawei is still praising Google and Android even after the ban. re EU and Asia's different stance on this, that's exactly what monopoly is. EU is getting ahead of the game and IMO making the right move. Rest of the world needs to join, close the legal loopholes of monopoly and do something to protect user privacy.
ncallaway 7y ago
> Meanwhile, the EU is trying to somewhat cut off Google's monopoly on Android, by telling them they can't force manufacturers to use their software. Now, people in Asia are complaining that they can't access Google's stuff. These don't seem that...opposite to me. They both fundamentally are the same complaint: there is a lack of _choice_ to be had. Yes, they are attacking different sides of that lack of choice in different regions, but they're both fundamentally saying we should have the option, but not be required to do this thing.
- PakG1 7y ago
  But it's also not Google's fault if there's no option. It's hard to get a new mobile OS to gain traction. Microsoft tried. Samsung tried. Firefox is trying. Even Huawei has been developing a Plan B for a few years apparently. If none of these guys succeed, how is that Google's fault? Google isn't doing what Microsoft did with IE against Netscape. Companies are free to install other operating systems on their phones or make their own operating systems. Momentum is hard to shift, is Google the villain for winning?
  - notus 7y ago
    Yeah I can't seem to wrap my head around people blaming Google for making products that other people can't improve on.
    - close04 7y ago
      >> I can't seem to wrap my head around people blaming [Comcast] for building [services] that other people can't improve on Or that again but replace with Microsoft and IE6 (in its heyday) and you'll realize what that "can't improve on" actually means. Other OSes can't compete because they lack the push to critical mass needed to build a solid app ecosystem, not because they are inherently inferior. It's a vicious circle where you need apps to get big and need to be big to get apps. If on top of that Google piles on the requirement that any manufacturer is either with or against Google, so they have to swear off any other OS in order to have access to Google services, you get some really insurmountable odds.
orloffm 7y ago
Manufacturers (like Russian Yandex) cannot use Google Play Services / store infrastructure and replace Google's Apps with their own. It's either all-in, or full China mode.

ggg2 7y ago

one thing just exacerbates the other. why do you think they should have had an alternative ready if they did fall (like us all) for google's empty promises of an open system? case in point f-droid: open source playStore alternative. go see how many confirmations and special settings you have to figure out to be able to use. another: mozilla location services and UnifiedNlp. two full replacement for google location via wifi. google completely broke the hability to use it deliberately and for no good technical reason (it is trivial if you have root. literally just change one setting that was only added to block the existing feature of setting a new location backend provider)

antome 7y ago

The problem is that the play store is a monopoly. If neither Amazon nor Samsung can create an app store with even a small fraction of the total useful apps found on the play store, who can? And if you can't find one particular app on the Amazon/Samsung store, why bother at all?

cobookman 7y ago
They can create an app store on Android. Nobody is stopping them. The same can't be said for ios
- benatkin 7y ago
  Huawei could make a UI toolkit similar to iOS, and use the Swift open source project, and encourage developers to port their iOS apps.
  - throwayEngineer 7y ago
    This seems like an expensive risky overkill to trust Apple, when JavaScript solutions work on every platform.
- eridan2 7y ago
  They can create an Android Store. But many apps depends on Google APIs or applications (Maps, Drive, Contacts, etc) and will require changes.
Theodores 7y ago
Times change. Why build an app and have an app store if you can do it with a PWA? There is only one 'killer app' on my phone - WhatsApp. I need my phone to access that through a PC and therefore need the app. Years ago I had a lot more apps, nowadays I am 'meh' and never visit the Play Store. Anecdotal, but, as mentioned, PWA has arrived and that means that an app store is not strictly needed like how it was before HTML5 arrived.
vbezhenar 7y ago
Google App Store is not a monopoly. You can build Android-based OS with your own store. Google spend some resources attracting developers. Huawei can do the same. May be even attract some exclusive software.

supertiger 7y ago

you didn't RC. Huawei is still praising Google and Android even after the ban. re EU and Asia's different stance on this, that's exactly what monopoly is. EU is getting ahead of the game and IMO making the right move. Rest of the world needs to join, close the legal loopholes of monopoly and do something to protect user privacy.

ncallaway 7y ago

> Meanwhile, the EU is trying to somewhat cut off Google's monopoly on Android, by telling them they can't force manufacturers to use their software. Now, people in Asia are complaining that they can't access Google's stuff. These don't seem that...opposite to me. They both fundamentally are the same complaint: there is a lack of _choice_ to be had. Yes, they are attacking different sides of that lack of choice in different regions, but they're both fundamentally saying we should have the option, but not be required to do this thing.

PakG1 7y ago
But it's also not Google's fault if there's no option. It's hard to get a new mobile OS to gain traction. Microsoft tried. Samsung tried. Firefox is trying. Even Huawei has been developing a Plan B for a few years apparently. If none of these guys succeed, how is that Google's fault? Google isn't doing what Microsoft did with IE against Netscape. Companies are free to install other operating systems on their phones or make their own operating systems. Momentum is hard to shift, is Google the villain for winning?
- notus 7y ago
  Yeah I can't seem to wrap my head around people blaming Google for making products that other people can't improve on.
  - close04 7y ago
    >> I can't seem to wrap my head around people blaming [Comcast] for building [services] that other people can't improve on Or that again but replace with Microsoft and IE6 (in its heyday) and you'll realize what that "can't improve on" actually means. Other OSes can't compete because they lack the push to critical mass needed to build a solid app ecosystem, not because they are inherently inferior. It's a vicious circle where you need apps to get big and need to be big to get apps. If on top of that Google piles on the requirement that any manufacturer is either with or against Google, so they have to swear off any other OS in order to have access to Google services, you get some really insurmountable odds.

orloffm 7y ago

Manufacturers (like Russian Yandex) cannot use Google Play Services / store infrastructure and replace Google's Apps with their own. It's either all-in, or full China mode.